The Loneliness Behind Constant Contact

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We have never been more reachable, and we have never felt more unreached. There are so many ways to stay in touch now, and somehow real connection feels harder than ever to find.

Meeting Holly And Defining Connection

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Welcome back to Healthy Mind, Healthy Life. I'm Yusuf, and today I'm joined by Holly B. Guttwillinger, an author and podcaster from Northern Ontario, whose debut novel North of Broken and Favrear Home explores the kind of connection that does not require words at all. The bond between a woman and a rescue dogs. Holly is also a mother of two grown sons and advocate for animals and someone who has clearly thought a lot about what it means to actually be present with the beings, human and otherwise. Today we are talking about something simple and increasingly rare. How to connect with people in real life. With that, I welcome my guest Holly to the show. Hello. Perfect. So, Holly, before we get into the bigger picture, I want to ask something gentle. When you think about the people you feel most truly connected to be in your own life, what do those connections actually have in common?

SPEAKER_01 1:37

That's an excellent question. I think that the connections, what they have in common is that people are able to be their true authentic selves with one another. And that is how I know I have made a genuine connection with someone is just it's a sense of knowing, of intuition, and feeling a hundred percent myself with the person standing in front of me.

What Technology Took From Us

SPEAKER_00 2:08

And you know, we live in a time when staying in touch has never been easier, and yet so many people quietly feel lonelier than they have in years. So, from your seat, what do you think we have lost in the way we relate to each other?

SPEAKER_01 2:24

I come from a time when writing letters, picking up the phone was a common practice. And I lived in remote parts of Canada where that's what you had to do in order to stay in touch with your friends and your family back home. And I think over the years we lost that connection. And I mean, I certainly don't want to blame computers or social media, but it changed the way that we communicate with people. And we we believe that these machines created something easier for us to stay in touch when really it disconnected us. So we couldn't hear each other's voices anymore. All we could see were words on a screen. Um, and as time moved on, people become very different with their words. You know, sometimes we have what's called keyboard warriors and they write whatever they wish, but we don't truly connect with people. And so I feel that we're missing that person-to-person, face-to-face connection. And although the video is wonderful and I'm able to stay in touch with more people now, there's something different about being standing in front of someone in real life.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Yeah. Yeah, actually. And you know, that distinction matters because if we don't name what is missing, we keep filling the hours with contact and wondering why we still feel unseen.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And we I don't think that we hide behind the computers, but it's a safe space. And so we tend not to leave the the desk, the chair. When we what we really need to do is get out and be part of communities and organizations or write letters to people because there's nothing quite like getting a letter in the mail.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

People don't even know what that's like anymore.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

Yeah.

Small Talk As Daily Practice

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What do you think is the first mall skill of real life connection? Like not the grand gesture, but the everyday thing most of us have stopped doing without even realizing.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

Uh, I would say it's the small things like going to the grocery store and talking to the person in line behind you or in front of you, or the cashier. Um, shopping experiences such as that, you know, where we used to make small talk or standing outside waiting at a bus stop. Everybody is, if you look around, everyone is on their phone. And I observe that a lot. I go to the city quite often and it breaks my heart. Everyone's heads are down and no one is talking to one another. And it I almost feel a little strange because I still make small talk with people.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

Yeah. Yeah. Actually, even I am considered extrovert in my people that that people that know me. And I just say hi to just and people, if I'm handing them money to the receptionist or maybe the cash collector, I say hi, how are you doing? And that is used to be the basic normal thing my father taught me when I was a child. And even saying that, you know, doing so little has made me extrovert, even though I know I am an introvert, you know. So, yeah, that explains what you are saying, and that that I have also genuinely felt about that.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

Yes, yeah. I think on it's unfortunate, but um, I refuse to give in and I will continue to make small talk with people in wherever I am. And usually they'll come out of their shell if you find that quick connection with them.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I think connection is like a muscle, not a personality trait, which means anyone can rebuild it, even people who feel like they've forgotten how.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

I agree with you. I you're you're absolutely right. Because people feel like they can't make those connections anymore when really, if they just practice, put yourself out of your comfort zone for all of two seconds, and you'll see it's not so bad, right? It's not so bad talking to other people. People are nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

Yeah.

Lessons From Rescue Dogs

SPEAKER_00 6:40

And I want to bring your novel into this for a moment. Because the relationship between the woman and her rescue dogs in your book is, you know, in its own way a masterclass in connection. So, what did writing that story teach you about what humans get wrong with each other?

SPEAKER_01 7:01

Acceptance. Um, the overarching lesson for me in writing this book was that I didn't need to fix the problem. I just needed to accept what was right in front of me. And that was with my dogs, but that can easily be applied to people as well. And sometimes we are very quick to judge someone that we don't know. But if you open yourself up to having a small conversation with them, you'll see that they have a story just like you do. Um, they have pain just like you do, happiness. We share, and all of those emotions are just, it just looks different. And if you learn to open, accept, you might be surprised at the connections you'll make. It doesn't mean that you have to become the best of friends with the individual. It just means that you've made a human connection and you'll feel it deep within your soul, your heart, your mind that it's it's what humans are supposed to do. We're supposed to make connections and be peaceful and kind.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

Yeah. Animals don't perform like they don't pretend. So is there something about being around them that restrains us in how to be with people, like retains us to how to be with people around?

SPEAKER_01 8:27

Yes. Uh you just need to be yourself because I'll speak specifically to dogs, but dogs accept you 100% the way that you are. And that includes the the good, the bad, and sometimes the not so pretty, right? And they do, they fully accept you without judgment and they love you no matter what, even if you've raised your voice or you've given them a look, they accept you. And so if if we were to just sit still for a few moments and observe the way that they're they and they also have a unspoken language and they just understand each other. But if we allowed one another to speak and listen, then I think that we would be more accepting and more um we we would listen to other people's opinions with respect.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

Wow. And I think maybe that is the reason animals heals us in that they refuse to let us hide, they show up fully and ask us to do the same.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

I think you're right. We uh they they do, they allow us to be who we are, and no matter how we show up, they'll always be the same. They they just accept. Yeah, you're you're right about that. Good point.

One Tiny Step To Start

SPEAKER_00 9:59

For someone listening tonight who realizes they want a deeper connection, but does not quite know where to begin. So what is one small thing they could do this week with one person that could actually shift something?

SPEAKER_01 10:17

A very, very small step. Well, the first step would be turn off your computer, go outside. And when you go to the corner store or to the grocery store anywhere, and you see someone, just smile at them, you know, in in a in a nice way, or maybe someone a compliment without being, you know, too, too strange. But um, people will be receptive of that or just say good morning. Good morning is a very neutral way to say hello, with it's a it's a way to smile, right? With one word. Um, and then you can increase from there. You can write a note to someone that you know, a loved one, a family member. And trust me, they will be happy to receive it. I have continued that practice of writing letters, and people love it.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

I read it on a substack that I ardently follow that when you go into the room and where you don't know anybody, most of the people don't know anybody in a grocery store until unless they are with their family or a friend. Everyone wants somebody to come to them and talk. Let's suppose that is the scene. So if you be that person, if you go and talk to them and connect with them on a maybe very basic thing. Oh, you bought apples, I bought apples too. Can you tell me what are the things that we should look for? A good apple, and you know, um, the author who wrote the substack mentioned that she did the very similar thing in a networking event, like somebody did to her, and now they are the best friends. So, you know, we never know where we can find our best friends, our best of people that understand this, and they are far more important, far more needed than this phone friend, those Instagram followers.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Yes, yeah.

Online Connection And Loyal Circles

SPEAKER_01 12:23

And you you bring up a good point. And when I say that we can't make connections over a computer, I uh you know, I you can, and I have. Um, I mean like the if you have 20,000 followers, well, you can't be close with all of them. But uh someone I I just met and interviewed on my podcast, he made an excellent point because I was asking him about, well, how do you grow your numbers? And and I was curious. And he said, it's not about how many followers you have. All you really need is a very loyal group of people. And and when I I mean that, you don't need to have them all as friends either. But I think that if we come back to some of the basics, you can have meaningful connections with people, even over a computer, over Zoom. I'm having a conversation with you, I've never met you, but I feel like this is meaningful, you know, and this will carry on through my day, my week, my month. And it's it's a matter of finding those connections and being open to them as well.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Yeah, yeah, that is true. We are not uh respiting or neglecting the technology or the way we are connected with it. But there is this sadly, or maybe fortunately, this is the tool that however close we can be online, the hug, the warmth, the touch, maybe the coffee, the taste of the coffee that we share cannot be done on a Zoom call on the online.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

No, but unless you both bring your coffees on.

SPEAKER_00 14:03

That is true.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

Yeah, yeah.

Protecting Time Through Priorities

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So, Holly, you are a mother of two grown sons, an author, a podcaster, and someone clearly invested in being present with the people in your life. So, how do you protect time and energy for real connection when the world keeps demanding your attention?

SPEAKER_01 14:25

You have to establish your priorities. And for me, human connection is definitely one of them. And that's what fuels my fire to be creative, to continue, to want to share stories with people out in the world. I started podcasting because I enjoyed them so much and I loved listening. And I felt like I had a friend in my pocket, in a sense, when I was alone or I went on a walk and a friend wasn't available. So for me, it's just um I I really at this point in my life, I sit down and I determine what truly is important to me and what no longer brings me service. And if it if I feel like it's just not something that's meant to be in my life, then it's time to allow that to slip away. Or and I don't mean as in people, but I just mean activities so that there is more time for the connections. When I'm out in the world and away from my little shed here, I I always look for that moment to connect with someone.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

And what have you stopped doing on purpose? Because it was costing you the kind of presence you actually wanted to give up.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

I mean, I uh I am a person who likes to start things uh and stop things, but I think it's because I'm always trying to discover what fuels me and what gives me purpose. Writing gives me a hundred percent purpose. But the things that I have left behind are I've I've joined different groups in with the thought that it would um give me more knowledge or maybe you know feel part of a group, a like-minded group. And it didn't, and that's okay. Like it's it's all right to let things go. And so, in particular, there was a writing group that I had joined, and I didn't have that connection with the people, although they were very nice. It just wasn't my kind of genre writing, and so I let it go because it was also taking up a lot of screen time, and I was okay with that. It was difficult in the moment. I thought, what if I disappoint these people? And I thought, no, you have to let go of those things, those types of thinking, those thoughts. It's okay to let things go if it doesn't serve you, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

And I think that kind of intentional subtraction is so undernated because sometimes connection is not about adding more, it's about quietly making room for more that acts that is actually meaningful, meaningful for you.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

And making room for what's important, and in this case, writing is important for me. And so I've a I like the way that you put that because it's created space for me to fill it with more writing as well.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

Yeah.

Where To Find Holly And Closing

SPEAKER_00 17:29

Ali for people who want to connect with you or want to read your novels, where can they do that?

SPEAKER_01 17:35

They can get my novel anywhere novels are sold. Amazon, of course, carries it. And um, my website, www.ramblingsfromthel.com. You can find some information on me there. Um, my podcast with my son is Ramblings from the Little Shed. So you can see there's a theme. And um, yeah, we we talk about all sorts of things. We talk with about people who feel like their animals have an influence on their creativity. So we talk about my book on there as well sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

Perfect. And to everyone listening, all these links are in the show notes, so just go and check those out. Holly, is there any last message that you want to leave us with?

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Just go out and and make some connections. I feel like we're coming back to the way that we used to connect with people and it and it warms my heart. I'm not trying to be too sappy, but I really believe that people are coming out of these shells. So go out there, make a connection, even if it's just saying good morning to someone.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

You know, this was a very warm, interactive, and connected conversation for me. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

If something Holly said tonight reached you, don't just save the episode for later. Reach for one person before you sleep tonight. A real message, a real call. Even a quiet sentence that says, I was thinking of you. That is where it begins. This has been Healthy Mind, Healthy Life. I am Yusuf. Take care of your mind, take care of the people who matter to you, and I'll see you in the next conversation.