Welcome back to Healthy Mind, Healthy Life, the show where we talk about real tools for living a more grounded, more honest, and more human life. I am Archita, and today I'm joined by someone who has spent more than three decades quietly figuring out what makes leadership actually work in real boardrooms with real people under real pressure. Jim Carlo is a transformational C-level executive, an Amazon best-selling author, and the writer behind the six pillars of effective leadership, a roadmap to success. What pulled me towards this conversation isn't the business angle. It's that Jim wrote this book in a way where every single principle could just as easily be a life principle: integrity, empathy, stability. The small daily decisions that shape who you become. So today we are not just talking about leading at work. We are talking about leading your own life with integrity and what that does for your mind, your health, and the people around you. So, Jim, welcome to Healthy Mind, Healthy Life. It's so good to have you with us.

I'm really excited to be here and I have to compliment you. You are the very first host to realize this is not all about business. This is about living any human being's life and the best way to do it. Um, and I actually, when I wrote the book, did not realize that. It wasn't till I was speaking at a conference and talking about the leadership and talking about the pillars when someone said to me, But aren't you really talking about how we should all live our lives? And I had to sit back and think, and I said, you know what? You're right. These things apply to everyone, not just people in the business world and not just leaders. So thank you for recognizing that.

No problem at all. And I think definitely that this conversation is going to be so much more than business. Even people who don't do business are going to find this really, really useful because these principles apply to life in general. I think it's it's really important for all of our listeners. And before we start, there is a gentle disclaimer to the listeners. Some statements reflect personal belief and experiences and are presented as individual views, not medical advice. So listeners should consult qualified professionals for medical conditions. And now that we have this out of the way without wasting any further time, let's dive into the conversation. And um, Jim, before we get into the pillars themselves, I want to start with something personal. So you've said in your work that leaders aren't born, they are built, which is, I believe it's really true. So when you look back at your own life, was there a quiet moment, um, not a big dramatic one, but one where you realize that becoming the kind of person you wanted to be was actually a daily practice and not a destination?

There's probably multiple points in my life where that happened. Um, but the one that really changed it all was right after I got out of college, I ran for a public office in the city I grew up in, or the town I grew up in. And the city administrator asked me to come in and speak with him. Now, this is back in 1983, so we didn't have cell phones and computers. So it was a long time ago. So you did say three decades, you made me sound old, but thank you anyway. Um, and he he I sat down with him and I didn't know what to expect. And so we started talking and he congratulated me on winning in the election. And then he said something so profound that it has guided my life. He said, Jim, he said, you're gonna do well in this in this role, and you can go far in your life, but I want you to do me one favor. He said, when you go to bed at night, and when you put your head on your pillow, right before you close your eyes, I want you to ask yourself this one question. And that question is, did I do anything today for my own personal self-benefit that was at the expense of another individual, group of individuals, or organization? And then he said, if you say yes to that question, you need to do two things. You need to figure out how to unwind it and how to never do it again. And as much as I was raised in a family that cared about others and gave back to the community, nobody had, and and even though my family raised us with integrity, nobody really said something so succinct to make me to make it that impactful that I had to reflect every day on that question. And that question was asked of me in November of 1983. And to this day, I ask myself that question every night. And I have never said yes to that question. That's how impactful that was. And it also taught me that I had to be real in terms of who I am and what I want to become. And at the same time, as I got into and as my career progressed, I saw people who I thought were good leaders get shunned by management. And when I talked to them, the thing I heard all the time was, well, they told me leaders are born that way, and I wasn't born a leader. And and you know what? That's just not true. And and here's why that's not true. If it was true, then genetically, somebody in my ancestry had to be a leader. My dad was a carpenter, his dad was a mason. My great-grandfather was a chicken farmer. There's no CEO, there's no president, there's no treasurer, there's no financial officer in any of those. Yet I have been in the C-suite. So to me, that that old myth that people are born leaders is false. And it's an excuse. Anybody who wants to be a leader can be a leader if they set their mind to it and prepare themselves to be a leader. And what I tell younger people in the workforce is don't wait for somebody to ask you if you want to be a manager. Behave like a manager or behave like a leader on day one. Because people around you will notice it. You will stand out and you will become a leader faster than anyone else. And the reason I say that is around the world, we we have a very bad habit. We typically, when I'm we don't do good succession planning anymore. I mean, as budgets have gotten tighter, succession planning has gone to the side, as has training. But as you evolve and and you're working in an organization, what we typically do is when a manager leads or quits or whatever, goes on to another role, we typically look at the organization they led and pick out the best technical resource and make them a manager. But what we what we don't do is teach them how to lead. So here's what happens. According to the Society of Human Resource Managers in the U.S., which is an association, 85% of managers or leaders are what we call accidental leaders. They didn't ask for the job, but they got promoted into it. Now, Gallup estimates, or I'm not sorry, Gallup, Gardner estimates, that a large percentage of those people will fail within two years. Because you can't just anoint somebody to be a leader and not give them the tools to be able to lead with. And that accidental leader needs to develop a leadership identity. They've gone from individual contributor to leader, but they what happens, and the reason they fail is they can't make that transition. And they continue to feel and act and behave like an individual contributor. And then one of two things happens, and it starts about 18 to 20 months. Either employees start to leave or the manager starts to burn out. And when they start to burn out, they start to realize they're not leading, and then they start to micromanage, and then they start to panic inside of them, and then they start to do all the work of their workers because they think that's the right thing to do, and it's not the right thing to do. And so my whole purpose in writing my book was to give people that roadmap of the things that managers that management never tells you you need to be worried about.

I think what you're doing is amazing, Jim. And this has already given us, you know, the uh an overview of the entire roadmap of what you do. And it's it's truly amazing. I think I think this is one of the best pieces of advice that I've heard in a very long time. That you know, you should start behaving uh the way the way you want to be, instead of just waiting to become that person. And that's that's so true. I think it applies to every um section of life. So definitely this this sets a tone uh for this entire conversation. And I'm really excited to uh you know learn more about what you do. And also that brings me to another point, Jim. Um there's there's a misconception that integrity is something you either have or you don't. So like like it's a trait that you're born with or a moral flag you wave in your bio. But from everything that you have seen in your own career and um in the leaders you have coached, what does integrity actually look like in real life uh on the days when no one's looking?

So, and the last part of what you just said is the key. Someone who operates with integrity operates with integrity 24-7, and even when people aren't looking. The fake people are the ones that show integrity when people are looking, but when they're not looking, they don't. And the thing about it is in my career, I've been very, very blessed. I've had some great leaders in my career and great mentors. But like everyone, there's always that one or two leaders that you find that lack that integrity capability. And it stands out. And when you're in that environment, you need to get out. I mean, you just need to get out. It's not going to serve you well, it's gonna cause you to turn into, or it's not gonna turn you into it, but occasionally you'll tend to act like that leader, and you can't afford to do that. And it's, you know, it's not just in business. If we look around the world, now I'm a lot older than you are, trust me. We don't need to go into age, but trust me, we've lost integrity in our governments, in our world leaders, in our corporations, everywhere. People have gotten away from what I call the golden rule. Do unto others when however that the rest of it, you know, treat others like you want to be treated. And we've gotten away from that. And I don't know, I don't know where exactly that road split, but I know it was more than 20 years ago. So I'm not talking current politics, which are crazy enough around the world, but I think even 20 or 30 years ago, our world leaders communicated more with each other and were more transparent with each other with what their goals and what they wanted to achieve. Today, I think we lack integrity around the world. And if there's one thing that I want to be known for, even though it may not create a world revolution, is that I tried to bring integrity back to where it needed to belong. And it needs to belong in every single company, it needs to belong in government, it needs to belong everywhere. And here's the testament to that. I have been in business over 35 years. I have had a number of people, a large number of people who have worked for me in the past who, when they decide to change jobs on their first phone call. I've had four or five people work for me multiple times. And the reason is they know I operate with absolute integrity and transparency. I'm a hard manager. I push people, I want them to be successful. That doesn't mean that I'm mean and rotten or anything, but the fact that I can create psychological safety with them is critical. Employees today around the world want to feel psychologically safe at the company and in the organization that they work with. And that's one of the reasons people voluntarily resign because they don't feel that. They don't feel that safety. This phrase of quiet quitting is all because they don't believe in their manager or leader in what they're doing. In fact, the Society of Human Resources, which is an organization in the United States, did a study two years ago and they listed the top 10 reasons why people voluntarily quit. Eight of the 10 reasons were directly related to their manager or leader. Eight of the ten. That tells me we have a not just a leadership issue, we have a leadership identity issue. Because the leader doesn't show up with a leadership identity, and that has to change. And I think that's that's what I'm trying to convince people of. And by the way, it's resonating. My book is a bestseller, which was a surprise. I've never written a book before. This is my first book, but it is a bestseller, but it's also practical application of it. There's no a lot of leadership people talk about theory. Or or or leadership training is come and talk about how to communicate better or how to delegate better or how to do this better. No, it's not about that, it's about human characteristics that make the difference.

Absolutely. And I think the last part of what you just said, it it's it will stay with me for a very long time. And I love that reframing of you know integrity that you just gave, because a lot of people have this misconception that integrity is a performance. But what you just shared with us, it it uh made us believe that it's it's actually a pattern that we develop over time, and most of us either build it quietly over years or we lose it quietly the same way. So, yeah, I mean, that is a very clear definition of integrity, honestly. And let's, Jim, let's stay with that and let's let us also look underneath it. So, um, Jim, a lot of people listening right now are carrying real pressure at work, at home, financially or emotionally. Uh so when someone has been operating under that kind of pressure for far too long, what do you think is really getting eroded inside them that no leadership book usually names? Not the productivity, but the deeper thing.

I think there's deeper things that leaders are missing. And um, and and I'm gonna I'll I'll talk about two pillars at the same time empathy and compassion. Those are so critically important to create psychological safety. If you don't have integrity and I try to show you empathy, you're gonna turn around and tell your friends, he didn't mean what he's just said. Or if I try to show compassion. So let me give you an example. As a leader, it is my responsibility to recognize when you show up one day and you're not yourself, and I notice something's different, and I have to act. And it could be you have a sick child, you have a sick pet, you have a sick relative, it could be anything. I'm gonna tell you a story that happened a couple years ago. I had a woman that worked for me that was a single mom. And in the United States, school summer vacation runs the end of June to the beginning of September in most places. In Texas, it's end of May to August. But regardless, this woman was working probably 60, 70 hours a week. She had an the dad was not in the picture. The dad had no interaction with her or the child who was 12 years old. And I called her into I had a call with her one day because she wasn't, we weren't close by. So we did a virtual, I do a virtual one-on-one with people who aren't close by. And I said to her, I said, Jennifer, it's the end of July. You've taken no time off. When are you taking time off to be with your son? And she said, Well, I hadn't thought about that. I said, Well, I have. So guess what? Today, after this phone call, I want you to shut your computer off, and I want you to shut your cell phone off, and I don't want to hear from you till next Monday. And she said, Are you firing me? I said, No, I'm giving you time to go be with your son who's 12 years old and needs you. He doesn't have an active dad. You need to spend time with your son. And and she actually said, I have to laugh a bit. She said to me, she said, Can I negotiate this? And I said, No, you can't negotiate this. Why would you want to negotiate it? I'm telling you to take the time off and I'm paying for it. And she said, No, no, no, no, you don't understand. I promised one of my clients a deliverable this Friday. If you tell me to shut my computer off, I can't make that deliverable. I need to make that deliverable. I said, okay, I'll make a deal with you. You don't have to take the time off right now. But next week, after that deliverable is done, you're taking the time off and you're not taking it as vacation time. I want you to log your time as if you worked because you've been busting your butt and working more than 40 hours a week, and I see it. So this is on me. I'm giving you the time to be with your son. Following week, the deliverable was done. She called me up. She said, Okay, I'm gonna turn my computer off and I'm gonna turn my phone off. And I said, Are you really gonna turn your phone off? She said, No, but I'm gonna pretend it's off. And I said, Okay, but I really don't want to see emails. I don't want to see phone calls. I don't, I mean, if you need help, if something happens, call me. But I don't want you doing work, I want your focus to be your son. That following Monday, she called me, and she was quite emotional, but she couldn't stop thanking me for forcing her to do that. She didn't realize what her son was going through as he was entering puberty, and it was their own her only child, and how much he needed his mom. And and you know what that. That was the easiest thing for me to do. But so many managers miss that opportunity. They're so tightly wound about this month's quarter or whatever. But what I create is I create teams that are loyal, that don't quit, that are there because they know I have their back. I know when you walk in the door in the morning or when we get on a Zoom call whether you're having a good day or a bad day, because I'm used to seeing how you walk in and how you appear every day. And when I see that something's off, as a leader, it's my responsibility to take action. And so many leaders miss that. So these pillars aren't just for new leaders or people who want to be leaders, they're for people who are leaders who just miss the boat. And then they're the leaders who I who I see that at some level of frequency they replace the their direct reports. Like the CEO who repla replaces everybody else at the C-suite. And it happens every two to three years. And I call that the moving of the chairs on the Titanic. That executive is moving people around to hide their own inefficiencies. But the reality is the Titanic is eventually going to sink. It's just a matter of time. And trust me, I've seen that.

I think, Jim, you couldn't have put it in a better way. Everything that you've explained today, it makes so much sense and it makes us look at leadership from a very different perspective. And I think the problem with most of the leaders nowadays is that they forget to be human, you know, in order to uh become a good leader. But you have um made all of us realize today that uh keeping a balance between both is uh actually um, you know, it's important and it's possible. So thank you so much for that, Jim. And um honestly, the truth is a person who has lost their stability inside of themselves cannot lead anyone else from a healthy place. And the example that you just gave, I think it's it's it's great. It um thank you so much for all of that. And honestly, there's something that I can take away from this conversation. It's that um you don't need a title to lead, you just need the integrity to keep showing up as the person you said you wanted to be on the small days, nobody is watching. So I think, Jim, this has been a wonderful conversation. Um, but I also know that uh a lot of uh our listeners would want to learn more from you. So, Jim, for anyone listening who wants to dive deeper into the six pillars, find the book or stay connected to your work, where's the best place for them to find you?

So the book is available on Amazon worldwide, and it's available in hardcover paperback and even audio. Um, but in addition to that, if they go to my website, which is just gymcarlo.com, um, and I'm hopeful that it'll be it. Well, I'm sure it'll be in the show notes, there are some free assets that people can download. And in addition to that, there's some other things that I'll be putting out on the website to dive deeper into each of the pillars. I've been working on a series of ebooks that dive even deeper into each pillar, and even a book that's called The First 60 Days of CEO or something like that. I can't remember what I'm gonna title it, but I'm I'm about ready to start to launch that. And these will be downloadable and you can pay right on the website to be able to get them. Um, I also do corporate workshops, I also do keynote speaking. So if anybody's listening to this and wants to bring me to a conference or wants to bring me to a company, I absolutely can do that. Um, my workshop at a corporation is a three-day workshop. It's very immersive. Um, I also do uh on the side cohorts where people can sign up to join an eight-week program where we meet once a week. It's usually in the evening or early morning if you're on the Asia side of the world. Um, and we cover the pillars in detail and we do role-playing and we do all kinds of things. So follow my website, sign up for my newsletter, and you can stay connected.

Amazing. Thank you so much for sharing that, Jim. And we'll make sure all of that is available in the episode notes so it's easier for our listeners to find you whenever they need to. And finally, thank you for being here, Jim. And thank you to everyone listening tonight. If something in this conversation pulled at you, even just a little, sit with it before you scroll to the next thing. The pillars Jim talks about don't get built in big moments, they get built in small, honest ones, and tonight could be one of them. This has been Healthy Mind, Healthy Life, part of the Healthy Mind by Avik Network. I am Archita. Until next time, lead yourself well, breathe a little easier, and remember that integrity is something you build one decision at a time.