Welcome back to Healthy Mind, Healthy Life. I am Yesurf, and this is the show where we slow down and have the kinds of conversations real life actually thinks. My guest today is Andrea Fotenberg, host of the Perfectionist's Guide to Mothering podcast, and a relatable, faith-filled voice for moms walking through the mass and beauty of motherhood. Andrea blends heartfelt honesty with hope, biblical wisdom, and practical encouragement. And what makes her work learned is that she's lived it herself. Today, we are talking about something so many mothers carry. But really, maybe choosing grace over perfection and what it actually looks like. Why it is so hard and how to begin. With that, I welcome my guest, Andrea, to the show.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so glad to be here.

So, Andrea, before we get into the heart of all this, I'd love to start somewhere, Prastal. When you look back, was there a particular moment or season in your own motherhood when you realized perfection was not going to save you? And grace was what you actually needed.

Oh, yes. Looking back, my children were young, probably five and two. And in those years, I just found that my plans for the day, my perfectly created plans or schedules, often didn't happen because one of my children didn't want to comply, or we had messes, or someone got sick. And so I really struggled with those unexpected parts of motherhood, all of the messes and little kids throwing a temper tantrum or not wanting to comply with my plans. And I just really felt myself frustrated and irritated by these things that would happen in motherhood. And so it was probably about a year later that I decided to go see a counselor because I did not want to feel angry and frustrated all the time. And I did not want my children to have memories of me being that mom who wasn't joyful, who wasn't at peace because I was so frustrated by just the unexpected messiness of life and motherhood.

Okay. And we are there's a common idea floating around that a perfect mother is one who has it all together. The house is clean, the tone is calm, the well-behaved children, the home cooked meal, the glowing photo, you know, a lot of things that we that the society and we have put on them. So, what do you think most mothers misunderstand about perfection itself?

I think we believe that perfection is possible because we think we see it in other people, in the social media reels or pictures that we see other people posting. We look at homes that we go to of our friends or our neighbors, and we just constantly compare to what we have or what our family or life looks like. And we forget that people often will post the beautiful pictures, right? They're not posting the messy pictures that that happen daily. They are, they are curating the highlight moments. And if we are honest, we do this ourselves too. We don't want to show everyone the messes of our home. We want to take the pictures when it's nice and clean. Or on picture day, we all put on our nice outfits and try to get together and smile. Although I found that on the days where we got a very nice picture, we were all frustrated and irritated with each other, but nobody sees that, right? The behind the scenes or what happens behind closed doors. And so when we realize that perfection isn't possible, even though it might look like it to someone else, it's just not realistic because life is full of activity and with children, again, messes and just life. And so knowing that it's not possible to have it all really can just help us breathe and release that pressure and realize maybe someone else's strengths are their home decorating or homeschooling their children or whatever that could be. And we have strengths as well. We often compare our weaknesses to someone else's strengths, and that's never a fair comparison. Not that comparison is ever fair in the in the beginning, but we just have to realize we have strengths as mothers that other moms may not have. And so instead of comparing, let's just be grateful and focus on being the mom that we are called and created to be. Oh, that is such an insightful question. I think we really do want to be the best mom that we can be, but you're right. I think we do want other people to think we are a great mom because we we all have insecurity about that. I think we're wondering if we're doing it right because you don't get a manual on how to navigate every situation in motherhood. And so sometimes when we're doubting if we're doing it right, that's really when we're looking for affirmation from other people to let us know that we are. But I think those affirmations actually come in unexpected places from our family. Like our children, when they're little, they don't know to say thank you to us every time we tuck them in at night or we feed them a meal. But when they are smiling and they are happy, those are signs that we're doing a great job as a mom. Not necessarily someone from the outside telling us that we are. So we have to look for those little understated reminders that we are doing a really good job.

And that distinction matters so much because one is rooted in love and the other is rooted in fear. And once a mother starts noticing the difference, something inside her can finally, you know, take a breath of fresh air.

Yes, that's so insightful. Yes, fear is, I feel like, a shadow for a lot of moms. We are afraid that we're doing it wrong. We're afraid we're not doing all the things we should be. We're afraid that if we have a bad moment that we're gonna mess our kids up for the rest of their lives. We just project all of these fears into the future when really being rooted in. I like to encourage moms to be rooted in faith, hope, and love. And when we are, then we can mother with more peace instead of that fear that we're not doing it right or fear for the future. We can live for today and trust that there's hope and good things to come in the future.

Andrea, a lot of mothers listening right now are not in some big crisis. They're in the middle of a Tuesday. They forgot about the toddler had a meltdown in the serial aisle. You know, dinner is left over again. So what does the gap between perfection and grace actually look like in those small ordinary moments?

Grace is so necessary for mothers, and grace is just really kindness and permission to not be perfect, but to be good instead. I think that is a more realistic role. And when we're living in perfection, at the end of the day, we look at we look back and we think, I didn't get anything done today. I didn't do these things on my to-do list. And so then we're living in this defeated mode when we look back at our days, but when we live in grace instead, we can look back at the day and say, wow, I did do a lot today. These unexpected things happened and I took care of them. I fed my family multiple times a day today. I made sure the children were clothed and bathed. I took care of these things from my list. And even though I still have more to do that I wasn't able to do today, I trust that I can tackle them tomorrow. And so then we live in a more contented, faith-filled, peaceful state versus that defeated, overwhelmed state of mind. And so it really's possible to make the adjustment. It's not always easy because I think naturally we're our own worst critic. But if we think about talking to our best friend or another fellow mom, our sister, and trying to pour in and encourage her, we can use that same voice and kindness to ourselves as well. And it can help us again to mother for more confidence instead of feeling defeated.

Yeah. And what's one thing she might be telling herself in those moments that Grace would gently rewrite?

One of the things that I have tried to remind myself is that a mess up as a mom doesn't make you a bad mom. It means you had a bad mom moment. If in those days where we are a little short-tempered or irritated with our children, that's one thing we can remind ourselves of as well. We can remember that there's no way to be a perfect mom, but there's so many ways to be a really good mom, to be an excellent mom. And when we look at our children and see who they are becoming and realize that we have had so much influence in their lives. And yes, we've gotten some things wrong, but we've also gotten a lot right. And I think we don't give ourselves enough credit for that.

You know, that image is going to stay with me because Grace is not a grand jester, it is a sentence she chooses to say to herself in the serial eye, and that is where the real shape lives. Absolutely. And here you write and speak from a place of biblical wisdom, but also from real-lived motherhood. So for the mom listening right now who's quietly exhausted by trying to be everything for everybody, what is one ship, one practice, or one small reorientation you would lovingly offer her? Not as a fix, but maybe as a starting point.

Yes. So my life I live through the lens of faith, and you mentioned seeking biblical wisdom. And so over and over in the Bible are reminders to rest and to care for others, yes, but also to make sure that we take care of ourselves. And I think as moms, that's something we forget to do. We are constantly pouring out to love our family well at the neglect of our own care and concern. And it's it's really important that we make sure as mothers we are well cared for. I like to use the analogy of a pitcher of water. And as moms, all day long we're pouring out water to make sure that everyone else has their thirst met and their needs met. But if at the end of the pitcher it's empty, we can't keep pouring out. We have to go be refilled in order to continue to pour out. And so it's not selfish, it's not a sign of weakness that we need to go be refilled. It actually is a good thing. It's the invitation to rest, it's the invitation to make sure that we have time with our spouse or with friends so that we are filled and able to then be able to love our family and show up well. So I just really encourage moms to seek rest that they need. There's lots of different types of rest, physical rest, yes, like a good nap or a good night of sleep, but also emotional rest or mental rest away from the noise of our children and the messes of our household. Sometimes that means we go take a walk, we go sit in a quiet place at the park. Just having some space to breathe and to rest as a mom is really important. And like I said, it isn't selfish, it's actually a way we can continue to love our family. So I would love for listeners to be reminded that rest is essential. It's not a sign of weakness, it will help us to love and care for our families well.

And what makes that one thing so powerful? Like even when it feels almost too small to matter.

Yeah, I I think again, when we notice that when we care for ourselves well, we come back a better mom, whether that's a short walk around the block or time with friends or a weekend that we go and spend with our spouse or by ourselves, it really can just make such a difference in how we mother. And we often feel guilt about that because we think, oh, I've longed for these children, I've prayed for these children, and God gave me the privilege of being a mother, and now it's just overwhelming and I just need a break. And I just want to encourage moms that that is normal and it doesn't make you a bad mom, it makes you a human mom. And so when we normalize that and remember that all moms need a break, all moms need rest, even those moms that we think are doing it all right and they're perfect, they need rest too. And they need a break as well. And when we take that time and invest in ourselves, it's an investment in our family too.

Yeah. Wow, absolutely beautiful. Because I think Greece does not ask her to do more, it actually asks her to do less and to be more present in what is left for her. And I think that's a quiet revolution.

It is actually, because like you're saying, I think we think we have to do more. We have to add this habit, we have to add this practice into our home. And and it's so much pressure. But really, when we think about it, what are the things we need to do to love our family well? I think we can actually take away a lot of the things we try to add because it's so much pressure. So instead of trying to do all the things, what are a few things we can do really well and focus on those? And then as we have time and capacity, sure, try to add something and don't add 20 more things. But really, just when we focus it down, take away the clutter, I think just loving our family really well in the ways that we have been gifted and created are going to make all the difference.

Yeah.

Andrea, for people who want to connect with you or want to learn more about your work, where can they do that?

Yes, so my website is AndreaFortenberry.com, and then I like to hang out on Instagram at Andrea Fortenberry, and my podcast, The Perfectionist Guide to Mothering, is available on YouTube in video format or in audio wherever you like to consume podcasts.

Perfect. And to everyone listening, all these links are in the show notes, so just go and check those out. Andrea, is there any last my face that you want to leave us with?

I would just love to encourage the moms listening that you are doing better than you realize. You don't give yourself enough credit for how you are loving your family well and all that you are doing to care for them. So I just want to remind you of that. You are doing better than you think. And even though you might fear or doubt or feel the pressure to do more, just focus on being the mom that you were created to be, and you're doing a good job.

Thank you so much, Andrea, for the warmth, the honesty, and the grace you brought into this conversation.

Thank you so much. It was a joy to be here.

And to the mother listening right now, maybe in the car line, maybe folding laundry, maybe finally sitting down for the first time today. I want you to hear this. You're not behind. You're not failing. You are a human being doing one of the hardest, most sacred jobs there is. And you're allowed to receive the same grace you give your child every single day. I'm you, so take care of your mind, take care of your life, and we'll see you in the next one.