When Screens Feel More Real

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Question time listeners. Have you ever found yourself more invested in a conversation that exists on a screen than in the one happening right in front of you? More attached to who someone could be than who they actually are? I mean, we don't talk about that honestly very often because you know it's it's easier to call or maybe label it as love or connection or just being social. But still I believe listeners, sometimes underneath all of it, what we are really doing is escaping, escaping loneliness, escaping the discomfort of reality, and then building a fantasy that feels a whole lot safer. So today we are going somewhere very real. Stay with me, because this is going to be a very honest conversation.

Meet Catherine Cristani

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Welcome back, listeners to Healthy Mind, Healthy Life. I am Sana, your host, and as you all know, this is the part of the Healthy Mind Biovic Network, a space where we have honest, raw conversations about what it actually takes to live well from the inside out. And listeners, today I'm joined by someone whose work actually sits at this intersection of healing, storytelling, and human soul. Introducing Catherine Cristani, she is a leadership coach, intuitive healer, author, and the founder of Willow Healing and a novel, My Virtual Obsession. It's far more than a story. It is a mirror. And today, Catherine and I are exploring something that lives quietly in a lot of us. The way loneliness can pull us toward fantasy, toward obsession, toward choosing what could be over what is. And what it takes to find your way back to the real life. So, listeners, let's get started. And Catherine, uh, welcome to Hildi Man Hilde Life. I'm really, really glad you're here.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to dive into this discussion because it can make people a little bit uncomfortable, but that's okay too.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

It is okay. It is okay. That's how life is. It's not always easy or uh yeah, we say it's not always a bed of frozen. But

Speaking Truth That Discomforts

SPEAKER_01 2:33

then, Katherine, before we get into the deeper layers of all of this, let's talk about your journey because you have openly, you know, talked about burnout, through burnout, then awakening, choosing yourself over and over again. When when did you first uh notice or maybe realize that you were someone who could hold a really uncomfortable truth and then write about it honestly rather than just look away?

SPEAKER_00 3:03

I feel it's because I always had difficulty keeping friends. You know, it sounds really weird, but through my life I would make really good friends and then I would feel betrayed, or I would feel like they would just kind of run away from me. And I couldn't figure out why. And when it came down to it, it's because I was reflecting to them parts of themselves they didn't want to see. Because I'm not one for small talk. I'll just cut to the chase. And some of my good friends now, we actually joke that we can talk about things that we wouldn't talk about with other friends straight away. We don't even mask it or hide it. But it's when you put on these different personas and identities and show up. And when I see through that, because that's one of my gifts, that people feel really uncomfortable because I'm seeing them for who they really are with all the shields and the masks in place that we do to protect ourselves. And so this is where it kind of came to a point. And I was working with the coach for a little while, and he's like, leaders actually trigger people into doing something or to run away, because this is what a true leader does. They're they're, you know, they can be seen as the victim or the sorry, not the victim, they can be as the hero or as the villain, but they find it really hard to be accepted for who they are. And so when I started realizing that actually I'm just going to speak my truth, because, you know, why not? People can just accept me for how I am and take me authentically, or they can run away from that. So that's where I started putting these words into into what I speak, into how I share, and actually linking it into things that happen in my life, because when you have a lived experience that allows you to assist people through it as well and have a different level of compassion and empathy compared to just you know having some idea what it might be like.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

Makes sense. Makes

Loneliness And Virtual Fantasy

SPEAKER_01 5:02

sense, Catherine. I mean, if if I my views on, not views, I mean my observations and experiences on loneliness. Yeah, I mean, it's it's kind of you know the human nature that we cannot just simply it's not possible to simply just, you know, tag it as black or white. There's a lot of greed, a lot of nuance in there. I mean, there are uh moments or you know, stages in your life when you just kind of crave for being alone for maybe just a few minutes, five minutes in there, because you have too much going on in your life. But then there are moments when you actually crave for, you know, being in presence of maybe your family or your loved ones, your friends. You kind of start seeing other people and kind of start judging yourself that okay, I'm lonely, maybe, you know, something something is wrong with me. That's why I'm lonely. And then, you know, coupled with the today's day and age, what all is happening, the virtual companions and all that, you know, AI stuff. It's kind of, you know, I think there are a lot of nuances related to the implications attached in here, how we project the the challenge of you know, being or feeling that loneliness. So talking about your book, Katherine, My Virtual Obsession, it is described as romantic thriller, but then you have been very clear. It's actually something much deeper. It's about how loneliness can cause us to choose potential and obsession over reality. And I think what our I share probably could be, you know, kind of connecting with this. You know, what is it about loneliness that you I mean that you know makes fantasy feel not just appealing, but then generally more real than the reality.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

Well, because our our natural human state craves connection, right? We're not meant to be alone. And I think we all experienced this, you know, through lockdowns and everything like that. We were craving that connection. We needed to be connected in some way, whether it was on the phone, you know, over the internet, however it was. So our natural state as humans is to be connected around other people. We're not animals, you know, we're not, we do better around other people. At the same time, when we have that loneliness, makes us reflect on our vulnerabilities. And that's why it's so uncomfortable for people, because when we're feeling alone, we have to face ourselves and we have to actually embrace that relationship that we have with ourselves. And if you haven't worked on loving yourself completely, and I'm not talking about romantic love, I'm talking about unconditional love, which is loving the darkness in you, loving the lightness in you, loving, you know, the fact that, you know, you might be a little bit overweight, however, that looks in your life, loving every aspect of you can make people feel really uncomfortable. So instead of facing our mirror and facing our own vulnerabilities, we try and escape into a reality of what things should be or what things could be. And even I've had clients and people I speak to, and they will stay in a relationship or they'll stay in a circumstance because they're fearful of being lonely and facing themselves, or they go into this reality and fantasy, which is very similar to the book of, oh no, this is what my life should look like, and this is how I imagine it should be. So I'm gonna have, you know, X, Y, Z happen, you know. So this is where all these kind of things intertwine. And when you really break down, um, okay, why am I why am I stepping into this fantasy? It can be easier. It can be easier holding on to the idea of what your marriage should look like when your relationship's breaking down. It can be easier to hold on to a relationship and rather than the idea of what are you gonna do on a Saturday night when you're all alone, you don't want to watch a movie by yourself. You know, all these sorts of things keep us in this fantasy and why we want to go there. Even me recently, it wasn't loonyest, but when I released my book, all these marketing scams came for me. And I'm not gonna lie, some of them are really tempting because it was what we wanted on a plate. It's what I wanted. I was like, here's XYZ. This is exactly what I want. But in reality, no, that person can't guarantee me book sales. That person can't guarantee me all of those things that they were prompting. So sometimes that fantasy and having everything you want, there's nothing to say you can't have that, but you still have to anchor yourself in steps that and action that you need to take to get there. And sometimes if things are getting you from A to Z without going in the middle, that is where we can get trapped into a fantasy or a reality that doesn't exist, which is exactly what happens in the book.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

Interesting. That is interesting. And and do you think, uh Catherine, that you know, people know on some level that they're living in a fantasy, or does the mind do a really good job of convincing them that it's real?

Why We Cling To Potential

SPEAKER_00 10:37

I feel it's it can be either way. It depends. And it's actually really interesting because I work a lot with chakras, which are the energy centers in the body. And if you have an imbalanced crown chakra, it can actually lead to you living in fantasy and realities that aren't actually happening. And I know we've all met that person where we just think, are they delusional? Like that that is not what happened, or that is not what's happening right now in front of our face. And sometimes it can be that their nervous system gets into such a state. It's easier to stay in the fantasy rather than face what's happening in reality. And sometimes our brain needs to do that to keep us out of the trauma, to keep us out of the loop, to keep us in survival, you know, so that this is why it can kind of play out that way as well. But then we have other people who sometimes it's just they know what's going on, but they just stick their head in the sand like an ostrich and they don't want to know what's going on because it can be hard. And I'm not gonna lie, it was difficult living my first marriage. You know, I knew in my heart it's what I had to do, but it was still difficult because I had to face, you know, what's next, I don't know. But at the same time, that can be exciting in itself, you know, and and we I've had other clients and it's like, oh, but but it's just easier. It's like, but is it easier? Because, you know, the thing is, energy can't be created or destroyed, it can only be transferred. So when you think about what's keeping you in these relationships that don't necessarily work, or when you think about um situations, it can even be a job or a career. If you don't start to look for something different or finish where you're at so you can move on, how is the universe going to allow you an opportunity? Even I have clients who are stuck in the the reality, not in the they know the reality, but they still have this dream of what the relationship could look like. But when you bring them back to actually, but that's not happening and that per we can only change ourselves. We can't change the other person, right? So when we come back to that and circle back, it's like, okay, well, what can I actually do in this moment? I can only be courageous and honor myself rather than trying to change everything else around me. And it does, it takes courage to step out of those situations, and that's why I feel people get stuck in the real the in the the false reality or in the fantasy, because it's just easier. You know, it's easier than making those courage taking those courageous steps to step out of it because you're stepping into the unknown and our brain doesn't like that. Our ego doesn't like the unknown. Our ego likes to keep us safe and have a structure and that sort of thing, but it takes courage to step out into a new way of being and a new way of life.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

Absolutely makes sense. And I also feel gathering, you know, just to add on to it, I think it's kind of this safety gear that our mind or maybe our nervous system, it kind of, you know, wears. Either, you know, if we have let's say childhood traumatic experiences

Delusion Or Self Protection

SPEAKER_01 13:57

or maybe, you know, people, I mean, you know, let's say I'm seeing that, you know, my friends or my classmates, they don't like me or they just keep on taunting me because I don't fit the usual way of appearance in there, overweight, or you know, maybe you look nerdy, those kind of taunts. You start to kind of get into a very different zone because you know, deep down you just want to feel safe in there. Or maybe, you know, when we are when we are, you know, going through grief or loss, we kind of feel that threatening within within us. So maybe that's how our mind or our nervous system kind of wears that protective gear just to feel safe, feel good.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Yeah, I agree 100% because sometimes we do what we need to do to get through the situation, right? Like, and but as you get older, you don't have to stay in those situations anymore. It's different when you're a child. And it doesn't, it's not to take away from that because being bullied and you know, being made fun of and all those things, it's terrible and it does play on your mind. But and then it can also lead to you, you know, there's that saying that we accept the love we think we deserve. Because if you think that that, you know, if you had someone that you loved in your lap and they always beat you all the time, then especially as a child, then you think that that's a null, you know. So this is what you grow up believing and accepting as yourself. At the same time, you can stop that and say, no, I'm gonna be the cycle breaker and I'm gonna put a stop to that right now. And I'm not gonna allow that to keep playing out in my life. And I think it was Keanu Reese said, if you're not comfortable sitting with yourself, then how can you be comfortable with anybody else? So if you're you're like escaping facing yourself and putting yourself in relationships and putting these masks on, you're never gonna have a successful relationship where you feel like you can truly be yourself because you've masked yourself from the beginning. And even when I found my husband now, I just laid it all on the table like he did. Like, you know, and there's still moments where I'm like, see, I'm not gonna talk to you about that because I don't want to. I'm gonna go talk to someone else because I know you're not gonna understand it or you're not gonna get it. And that's okay too, because we're allowed to have multiple people in our lives we go to. But at the same time, I'm happy being on my own. I'm happy having that moment where there's quiet in the house and I can just go do whatever I like and have that moment. But I also like having the balance of having my my family around. So this is where it comes down to who are you really and what do you want to accept? How do you value yourself?

Self Worth After Bullying And Trauma

SPEAKER_00 16:52

And what are the values you have in your life that you want to see echoed out into multiple facets and multiple areas rather than accepting things that maybe aren't necessarily in line with who you want to be.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

Yeah, I do I do understand that question. Yeah, I I do.

Daily Practices To Return To Reality

SPEAKER_01 17:14

And before we wrap up, Catherine, let's say for someone who recognizes themselves in this, you know, maybe they are in a situation right now where they know honestly they are more attached to a version of someone, maybe a version of life, than to what's actually there. Where does what does coming back to reality actually look and feel like, you know? Like the small daily return to what's real.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

I feel it's actually start to get honest with yourself. Like look in the mirror and you know, it's such a simple practice. Tell yourself, like look in your eye, look in the mirror, and tell yourself I love you. And if that feels uncomfortable, why? And start to ask these questions and go through, you know, actually, what do I want underneath all of this? What do I desire? Who am I underneath all of this? You know, and just because you've got yourself in a situation that might not feel authentic in your life, doesn't mean you can't change. And by starting and being really honest with yourself and looking in the mirror, you can start to build back that trust with yourself, because that's often what happens, and start to commit to yourself. So if you say to yourself, I'm gonna get up and go to the gym, get up and go to the gym. You know, if you say, I'm gonna get up and I'm gonna go for a walk or I'm gonna read that book, honor that and do that. Because the more you make promises to yourself and break it, that is when we start to step into this fantasy because we're not honoring who we are and we're not trusting ourselves. So instead we'll make excuses. We'll just keep allowing that to filter out into our life. So really coming back to our back to yourself and going, what do I really want in all of this can be such a powerful thing. And I know Clive, one of the main characters in my book, that's what he does. He's like, actually, what do I want? This situation is making me reflect on all the things I don't want. Actually, I I don't even know if I want to keep working, doing what I'm doing, or you know, living where I'm living. And and that's okay too. This is why we often go through midlife crises, but really it's coming back to what do I truly want in this life?

SPEAKER_01 19:40

That's really powerful, Catherine. Really powerful.

Where To Find The Book

SPEAKER_01 19:43

And of course, for all of our listeners, uh where they can find your book, and if they would also like to connect with you, what's what's the best way?

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Yeah, beautiful. Thank you for the invitation, Sonia. So my book is on Amazon, Kobo, most of your favorite e-reader platforms. If you want to buy it directly from me, you can go to my website, which is willowhealing.org slash my dash virtual dash obsession. If you want to find more about me, you can just go to willowhealing.org. And I hang out a lot on Instagram. So my handle is willowhealing and then sh. And yeah, if you want to come explore, I have a podcast as well, which is called Willow Healing Matters, where we dive into all sorts of uh things, physical, spiritual, all the fun things in life. You're welcome to come and jump on and check that out as well. And if you're just curious or you just want something, please do reach out to me. I am very approachable. I don't just sound this friendly. I am like this friendly in real life too. But you know, and I do have a sense of humor because sometimes even in the most serious moments in life, we still need to find a reason to laugh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

Absolutely, absolutely. What's slow said, Catherine. Yes, yes, definitely. We do need that a lot. And yes, uh listeners, I'll have all the links mentioned in the show notes. So, yes, check out Catherine's book, Virtual Obsession, and also check out Willow Healing and check out our podcast as well. And to make that all easier for you, I'll have all the links mentioned in the show notes. So find them attached along with this episode on whichever platform you are tuning into your Healthy Mind, Healthy Life podcast right now. And Catherine, uh, thank you. Thank you so much for this meaningful conversation. Honest healing in all the right ways. And I really appreciate you know uh for the for the work that you're doing and especially keeping loneliness at the center because honestly, in today's day and age, it's becoming much more relevant to talk about it. So thank you so much. Thank you, Sonia.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

Thank you for having me and then share this with you.

SPEAKER_01 21:59

And all the listeners. Thank you so much, you know, for being such a wonderful part of the Healthy Man and Healthy Life community.

Closing Reflection On Healing

SPEAKER_01 22:06

And if something, something in today's conversation landed somewhere quiet inside you, sit with it. You don't need to rush past it or fix it. Just let it be there. Because sometimes the most healing thing we can do is stop running from what's real and start getting curious about it instead. Until next time, this is Hilde Mine Healthy Life. Take care of yourselves, and I'll see you in the next episode. Thank you.