SPEAKER_02 0:00

Listen, there's this moment that most of us are aware of but we we don't actually talk about it much. You know that moment where everything you built or everything you thought or you planned it quietly falls apart. Either it's it's your job or or the body, the marriage, the certainty, and then in that silence, something really strange happens. You begin to hear this is this question that you have been avoiding, you have been trying to avoid for years. Not why is this happening to me? But who am I without all of this? Now today's guest he believes that the question that question isn't the end of your story, but it's the beginning of your real one. So hi and welcome back everyone to Healthy Mind Healthy Life. I am Sana, your host, and listeners, this is the space where we slow down enough about the things that most of us carry out, but we rarely say out loud. And listeners, today I'm joined by Dr. Ken Kaufman. He is a sports medicine physician and motivational speaker from Sarasota, Florida, who has spent over 30 years helping people heal physically and just as much time helping them find purpose through adversity. And he's here today to talk about something he calls from collapse to calling and how the hardest seasons of life they can actually quietly become the most clarifying for you. So if you are somewhere in the in the middle of a hard chapter right now, this one is for you. So Dr. Ken, welcome to the show. And as always, it is really an honor.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

No, thank you. It's uh the honor is mine. I appreciate being here.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

Okay. Uh Dr. Ken, before we we go deep, people something a lot of us we we get kind of wrong about hard seasons. And and it's like easier said than done, you know, uh if you just stay positive enough or you pray hard enough or you push through, the the collapse won't really, really touch your it won't really break you. I mean, you know, yeah, to some extent it can it can work, it can help you to push through, but then life is is uncertain. You know, you can expect the good things, but sometimes, you know, the worst of the things may happen. So from everything, everything that you have seen, we'll definitely uncover that. But from everything you have seen, what do you think is the biggest misconception that we carry into the hardest chapters of our lives?

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Well, as human beings, nobody wants to go through hard times. They want things to, you know, work out perfectly according to their plan and and you know, just experience joy and happiness. And I should say just happiness. People want to be happy. Unfortunately, happy happiness is rooted in happenings, what's going on around us. If you know we're making money and you know, we're having fun and we're enjoying our job and we're enjoying the people that we're interacting with, then we can be happy. But on a deeper level, oftentimes what happens is because of our human nature, you know, we in the Bible it says that you know the greatest, you know, the the the we sin in three different ways, the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life. And, you know, when we are focused on, you know, let's take these each three, lust of the flesh, and it doesn't have to be sexual. It could be, you know, what can I do to make myself feel better? And that could be, you know, eating, you know, overindulging in food that we like, you know, alcohol, drugs, sexual activity, different things to make us feel better. And then there's the lust of the eyes, and that's where we see something that we have to have it. I don't know if anyone's ever uh done that where they didn't even know something existed, and then when they see it, then they see it everywhere and they're like, oh, I gotta have that. If I have that, I'll be happy. If I have you know more money, I'll be happy. Once I reach this amount of income, I'll be happy. And then there's the pride of life, where you know, we are proud of what we accomplish ourselves and you know our what our identity is rooted in. And that was that was my big, you know, issue. Um, you know, I had uh sin in all three realms, but the the biggest one was the pride of life. I was very proud of the business I created, the life I created. And but the you know, the overriding theme is I created it myself and I thought I created it, and in reality, I I really didn't. And so the biggest challenge is is is realizing that you know we are we have a creator that has you know provided things for us and provided opportunities, and if we neglect to appreciate that or abide by that, then then then what we have built in our own strength is very, very uh unstable and very shallow. And that's what I discovered along the early path.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

And um, you know, this is something that for the listeners also of Helldim and Endelife, let me tell all of you that we explored Dr. Ken's journey a bit on another one of our podcasts, uh Biz Blend. But uh Dr. Ken, I believe that it was actually humbling for you and many, many of us, you know, we have that experience, you know, especially we are we are building, we are spending 30 years building something, you know, with if our our life, our reputation, it's all around it. And then, you know, either drastically or sometimes gradually, it all begins to kind of unravel. And you know, it it in that entire you know, unraveling, you start to discover or feel something very uh different, which probably nobody would have warned or or told you, or maybe, you know, maybe somebody will have told you, but you kind of you know dismissed it because you know that what you are building, what you are doing, it is it is solid. You know, sometimes I believe our our ego it comes in between. I I'm not saying that you know one shouldn't have that self-respect and dignity for ourselves, but then sometimes it can there's very thin line, a very fine line between that self-respect, confidence and ego, you know. We we sometimes talk about that. What is the thin fine line between confidence and ego? So I think it was really, really humbling for you. That's what I see.

SPEAKER_00 7:40

Absolutely. It was extremely humbling. And again, you know, if we strive just to be happy and and and you know, we're happy in our outcomes, you know, we're we're gonna be disappointed at some point along the road. And you know, it took me 30 plus years to figure this out. And there's a difference between happy and joy. Happiness is around happiness and and happenings. Joy is when you are rooted in something way deeper than what's going on around you. And the the biggest revelation it was for me was when I became a disciple of Christ and in my walk uh last year, and all the turmoil that that was going around me, everything that was happening in my life at the time, you know, there was no reason for me to be happy because my happenings were a complete disaster. And we talked about this on the other podcast that I had to close a business of 31 years, I had to file bankruptcy, my wife left, I had to sell my house. You know, at one point my car got repossessed. At one particular point, I for a three two-week period, I lived in three different places or six different places. And it was, you know, a an extreme amount of uncertainty. But in the middle of that process, I discovered joy. And I know that for listeners, it's uh, you know, some listeners, it may be hard to understand, but I experienced a joy because, you know, in my walk with walk with God, I was able to really take in there's a scripture that I've read multiple times, but it wasn't until a particular point after I surrendered my life to Christ that I read it and I really, really impacted my soul. And that is Philippians 4, 6 and 7. And in it it says, uh, Paul writes in his letter to the um the Church of Philippi is be anxious for nothing, but in all things make your requests be known to God with prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, and the peace that transcends all understanding will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. And when I read that at that particular point, I felt an unbelievable release of stress, anxiety, worry, doubt, fear. I still had a bunch of happenings around me that you know I had to deal with, but I had a joy knowing that I had given those things to God. And he, you know, through the Holy Spirit was able to give me that peace that really did transcend all understanding. And that carried me through the entire process. And I've, you know, so now as as you know, things have turned around as far as the happenings around me, with, you know, I found a new job, I'm, you know, living very comfortably in a very simple way. And all of that could be uh taken away at this point, and I wouldn't really care because I I know that if it was taken away, then I have the joy of God that's that's looking out for me and has a plan for me. And that's really what my my you know, the core of my message is and why I want to get this out is I've gone through a lot of dark seasons with the death of a first wife, you know, and then the you know, that was in 2019. And I've been through a lot, but God's using that, using me in my story to be able to reach other people to when they are going through hard times, to, you know, don't lose hope, lean in deeper to the word of God and and you know you you two can experience a joy that transcends all understanding.

(Cont.) Finding Joy When Life Falls Apart, with Dr. Ken Kaufman

SPEAKER_02 11:33

That's that's beautiful. That's beautiful. And I I from what what you know I hear and I understand is you found your strength in in God, in faith. And you know, that's that's how I think that's that's the beauty of his humans. You know, we find our strength maybe in prayering, or in in praying, or in centering, or in different different practices which which can help us understand exactly where that that soul level joy that we sometimes we we it's kind of hard to explain every time, but something which you can actually feel. I think it's far beyond what I believe beyond the materialistic happiness that we talk about. And it's not like that, you know, you have to leave everything and then go and look for that uh joy. I mean, some people find joy through being in service for others, some people find joy through you know doing something creative, maybe in art, music, sometimes in podcasting. Maybe you know uh they also find joy because they surrender themselves, you know, for for that particular cause. So I think that's that's the beauty which I find in your story. I am very sure our listeners will find it as well. And one one thing, one question that comes to my mind, Dr. Ken, is when you were, you know, everything was was fine, you know, normal street of school, business as usual. You were still you were still, you know, doing your usual praying or you know, everything was fine. But what exactly shifted, you know, because when life happens, we talk about these life-changing events, you know, sometimes life-crushing events. We tend to think, why God is doing this to me? Am I getting punished for something I've done wrong? And and you know, these beliefs can either connect with quote-unquote religion, or sometimes you know, there are cultural aspects as well. Either God is punishing me, or I've must have done something wrong in the past. I must have done hurt someone, that's why you know I'm getting punished. You know, you start questioning sometimes. Even the so so did you have these kind of questions, or you thought maybe, okay, maybe the problem was me only, and now I must, you know, I see that faith, my my the God is giving me strength, so I have to work on that.

SPEAKER_00 14:34

Yeah, well, there's uh I think there's a big when we're going through those seasons and we think that God's punishing me, you know, God's not necessarily punishing you, he's refining you. And that conceptual shift and and mindset and thought is really critical because if we think that God is punishing us, then we are a victim. Now, we may be a victim of our own sin, but what he's doing is actually well, think about it this way. If if you're a child, if you're six years old and you know, you you do something that's outside of the uh bounds of the rules of your home, and your father punishes you. He punishes you by you know, you know, putting you in timeout, which is something we do in in the US, putting you in timeout or you know, scolding you, or you know, taking away your favorite dessert or whatever. He's you know, he's not doing it to be mean to you. He's not doing it to you know punish you necessarily, but he what he's doing is he's correcting you. And he loves you enough to make sure that you are being molded into an image bearer of his so that you can walk upright and be righteous in the world. And so the same thing happens to us from our own sin, from our own uh jealousy, from you know our own pride. God's correcting us and refining us. And in the Bible, in many instances, they use fire as a as a reference and fire specifically with gold. Gold in its purest or in its uh you know, raw form has uh lots of impurities in in it. And the only way to get those impurities out is through fire. And when you understand that there's, and I I just wrote an article called Don't Waste the Fire, where when we're going through these issues and going through tribulations, there is a hidden opportunity. And if we look at it as God is just punishing us, why is God doing this? Instead of what can I learn through this process? What can I learn about my my mind and my activity and what I'm focused on? Because if we put our career above everything else, everything else is going to start start to suffer. And so God's really correcting us throughout these tribulations and these uh seasons of uh of fire.

SPEAKER_02 17:06

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and and talking about that, I want to bring this into the everyday now because maybe you know not everyone listening is going through a collapse of that scale. But then many are in in something probably, you know, maybe in in particular aspects, maybe in their job or in their health, maybe in their relationships, or maybe you know, themselves, you know, their identity feels like it's slowly slipping. They're just trying to find the meaning of everything. Because I I myself have suffered, I should say suffered, I myself have gone through such, you know, sometimes very, very difficult, you know, questioning my own identity, questioning my own purpose in there. So from what you have lived, Dr. Ken, from what you have written about in spiritual endurance, how does this kind of season usually show up in ordinary life? And then what would you say to someone who senses that their old life is ending, but it feels too of but they feel too afraid or too tired to look directly at it?

SPEAKER_00 18:22

That's a great question. And one of the one of the things that I discovered is, you know, other than well, I mean, the the the joy that I experienced throughout this process, it it allowed me to really listen to what God was asking me to do. And, you know, one of the things, you know, the uh title of this podcast is Healthy Mind, Healthy Life. And too often we're too hung up in the day-to-day happenings. There's that word again, the day-to-day happenings and the activities that we have to do. We got to work, we gotta maybe take care of children, we have to, you know, do go to our job and and you know, make income and pay bills and you know, clean the house and you know, all the activities and tasks that we are we're we're called to do. And we're so caught up in that is we don't stop and listen and stop and be still. One of the prayers I say every day, you know, morning and night is teach me to be still and to hear your voice, to trust you fully and to move only when you lead. And it's that surrender to just try to empty your mind to be able to allow, you know, the spirit to talk to you of you know what you're supposed to do and what your path should be. Because when we we, you know, as human beings, we want control. We think, you know, and it's the ironic thing is that it we, you know, the more we try to grasp grasp control, the less control we have. And so understanding that, you know, we're we don't have control, but that's the bottom line. We can plan things, we can, you know, kind of kind of look to accomplish things, but we're ultimately not in control because God is sovereign over everything. And so when when when those things start to slip away, then we start to question. And then we don't have control. We can't see the path that's in front of us. We don't know what you know God has for a purpose of our lives. But throughout that process, God reveals the next step. God rarely, if ever, reveals the whole path in front of you on, you know, ultimately what what you you need to do. And so, but he will provide the next step. And we need to trust that God is sovereign over everything, he loves us, and he wants to see his children flourish. And if we take the faith and trust to just take the next step, the next step will be revealed to us. And so, um and just imagine uh if you're if you're listening, just imagine the peace and the lack of anxiety that you can have when all you need to do is just wake up in the morning, go through your routine, be still, listen to what the next step is, and then just in faith, take that next step and understand that the next step after that will be revealed, and then the next step after after that, and you can you can go through life without anxiety, stress, worry, doubt, because God is revealing the steps that you need to take. And you just need to have the faith and the trust in him that he's got you on the right path. And if and if the the the nice thing is is that if if if you're trying to control things and trying to control an outcome, you're not gonna see what the next step that he wants you to take because you're trying to like make it in your own mind. And when you do that, there's a very strong, if you're you know, if you if you're trying to create a certain outcome and that's not the path you're supposed to be on, you can go weeks, months, years, decades like I did, and be on the wrong path. And that is a very sobering reminder to you know not veer too off too far off the path because then it can becomes very difficult to uh bring your back yourself back to center. And but when you when you can just take the next step and not not stress and worry about the whole picture, it just gives you a sense of peace throughout the day. And and you know, when when situations arise where maybe something doesn't go right at work or you know, somebody, you know, a coworker does something that you know angers you or whatever, you can have the peace just say, okay, it's just a part of the process. Let's, you know, I'm not gonna worry about it, I'm not gonna stress over it, and uh just keep moving forward, just keep taking the next step in faith.

SPEAKER_02 22:59

Absolutely, absolutely. And I think this is exactly I'm I'm very sure uh it's gonna definitely resonate with a lot of listeners because it does with me as well, Dr. Ken. That it it's giving you that strength and grace in in that perspective because the idea that the fire it doesn't end when the calling begins. You know, it's not that your life, all the problems will diminish, all the challenges will will not be there just because you know that calling begins, but still it just becomes the place where the calling it keeps being refined.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

Absolutely. Well said.

SPEAKER_02 23:45

Great. Uh so Dr. Ken, before we wrap up, for someone listening right now, probably you know, they are quietly losing the life they built, and they haven't told anyone how heavy it has felt. What would you want them to carry into their next morning or their day?

SPEAKER_00 24:07

I would say that when they're going through hard times, here's here's something that happens. Well, think about this. If if anyone's ever watched a documentary about like the Serengeti Plain and Pride of Lions chasing down, you know, gazelle. Yeah, they're they're looking to feed. You know, ask yourself, who do who do the lions usually pick off in and devour? And it's usually that one gazelle that gets separated from the herd. They are by themselves and the lions are able to, you know, get to them. And uh when we're going through trials and tribulations, if we are separated from our herd, so to speak, but if we're separated from people and we try to fight our battles alone, if we try to fight our battles in the dark, the enemy very, very easily can infiltrate and devour us. And so I would say that for people going through troubled times. And the ironic thing is in this age of social media, we, you know, we have our, you know, 5,000 Facebook friends and we are we have our connections on LinkedIn, but we're more isolated than ever. We're we're by ourselves. We want to put out only the the best pictures and the uh storybook life on Facebook and on social media. But the challenge and the problem is that that's not reality. We are all going through dark times and and dark uh passages. And if we're not headed, if we're not in a a dark season right now, and we're like in a bright, sunny field of uh of a season, we're heading into a dark season of some sort. And so we need to be aware that these seasons are gonna, it's just and it's a season, you know, we have spring, summer, winter, fall. You know, if if if things are all sunny now, we are gonna head into uh a darker season. But then also if we're in a dark season, we are headed to greener pastures. But we need to uh not isolate ourselves. We need to come together, fellowship with good friends. You know, in the Bible, they have, you know, they they have mat carriers. If anyone's read the Bible, where you know, there's a paralytic man and there were four people carrying him on a mat, and they lowered him through the roof to be able to get to Jesus because the crowd was so large. And Jesus healed him from his paralysis because of their quote-unquote math mat carrier faith. It wasn't his faith, uh, the paralytic, it was the faith of the mat carriers. So we all need to, those three or four just really, really close friends that we can rely on and hold us accountable and uh be able to call at two in the morning and say, hey, I'm having a problem, and they'll pick up the phone. So uh do not isolate yourselves, be around other people. And because when you when you when you bring your child your problems to light, light will all always overcome the darkness. And that's my biggest advice when you're coming going through things, especially as a you know younger generation, is don't think that there's something wrong with you, but realize that you have friends out there and people out there that care about you and want to help you, and just just bring it to light. And it's so freeing because then you can you can help other people, and and that's the best way to deal with your own pain and anguish is to just help other people. And you know, the joy can that that that surrounds that is amazing.

SPEAKER_02 27:48

It is, it is. I believe it's a blessing, and I really, really appreciate Dr. Ken because that was beautifully put, and it's it's of hope, love, light, and that is something we we genuinely, genuinely need in today's day and age. And of course, for your book and for you know, the listener who feels this episode was meant for them today, where can they find you, your work, your book, of course, spiritual endurance, Faith Forge in the Fire?

SPEAKER_00 28:25

Yeah, it's available now in paperback and also on Kindle and on Amazon. I'm working on an audio book that will be released in the next several weeks. And then I'm also working on, which would be very exciting, I'm looking forward to this, is a spiritual endurance six-week study guide to kind of really, you know, in addition to the book, just a co-companion of the book, to really have reflection questions, spiritual scripture, and being able to really more digest some of the principles in the book is as more of an activity. And so I'm working on that currently, and I should have that up and available as well. But if they go to Amazon and search for spiritual endurance, that book will come up. And then also, you know, by the time this recording is done and and published, I may already have the workbook already done. But if they go to spiritualendurance.com and they can sign up for joining the spiritual endurance community and they'll have sneak peek updates of to uh you know what we're doing, what I'm doing and and w when they can uh get the workbook to.

SPEAKER_02 29:31

Amazing. That's really great. And yes, listeners, I'd have all the details mentioned in the show notes. So yeah, find them attached along with this episode on wherever you are listening to this podcast right now. And uh Dr. Ken, thank you so much for for the honesty, the courage, and for the words of hope. And also the reminder that what looks like a collapse from the outside can sometimes be the most sacred ground we will ever stand on. So thank you so much. And yes to everyone listening, wherever you are today or tonight, uh, wherever you are listening this podcast from, in the middle of an unraveling, or maybe in the in the you know, quite rebuilding after one. Let me tell you that you are not behind, you're not broken, you're being walked toward a version of yourself that the old life couldn't hold. So, this has been Healthy Mind, Healthy Life. I am Sana. Take care of your mind, take care of your life, take care of your body, and I'll see you in the next episode. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 30:48

Thank you, Sana.