SPEAKER_00 0:05

We talk about the doctors, the patients, the breakthroughs. But then think about, listeners, what about the systems that are running quietly in the background? The scheduling tools, the data flows, the administrative layers that either support care or silently suffocate it. Because here's what I have started to believe, listeners, when the operational side of healthcare is chaotic, the people inside it, I mean, if you can look at this from a lens of maybe a business perspective, just for simplification. But then still, especially in an industry like healthcare, the providers, the caregivers, the staff, when that operational side is chaotic, they carry that chaos in their bodies. They burn out, they disconnect, and patients feel it too. So today we are going to talk about something that doesn't often make it onto the wellness podcasts. But then it absolutely belongs there. What happens when we simplify the systems that hold care together? So welcome back to Healthy Mind, Healthy Life Listeners, where we believe that well-being isn't just personal, it is structural. It lives in our workplaces, our systems, and the environments where care is meant to happen. I am Sena, your host, and today, listeners, I'm joined by Michael Peterson, CEO and co-founder of eClouds and eClouds Health, a healthcare technology company building Salesforce native solutions that streamline operations for healthcare providers. Well, Michael's work sits at this very interesting intersection of technology, healthcare, and also the human experience. And today we are going to explore how this operational side of healthcare and care shapes the mental and emotional well-being of everyone inside the system. So, Michael, welcome to the show. And uh it's really an honor having you here with us.

SPEAKER_03 2:15

Thank you for having me, Joey.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Uh okay, Michael, uh, let's let's begin with first uh the status quo and majorly around this assumption, you know, that healthcare technology, especially on the operational side, it's it's really more like a business or an efficiency problem. But then, you know, with your experience in there, I mean, you have come in asking us also to think about it differently. So, uh, what what do you think? Like, why what do most of us are getting wrong when we think about the operational side?

SPEAKER_01 2:52

So I I think that there's two different aspects to talk about. One is the patient experience, which is can be maddening complex and frustrating. And I think a major reason for that is that medical providers in the US are working out of six, seven, eight, nine different systems. They send a text message from one system telling you to come in on a certain time as you have booked it. But the system is not smart enough to let you ask a week in advance for a reschedule. And when you call, they don't recognize your number and go like, hello, Mr. Peterson. With any modern system, they they should answer, hello, Mr. Peterson. Are you calling about your appointment or your appointment next week? So they see it. So everything is in many different buckets. And the same applies to you come to one doctor, I had that experience personally two weeks ago, and I have the best, really good, not I'm saying the best, but great health insurance. But I went to one doctor for something, and I just assumed that since I was recommended by my primary doctor, that he could see my history and everything. And he goes, like, no, we're not in the same system. I'm sorry, we had this EMR and they have that EMR, and we can't see anything. So it's much beyond my or anybody on the call's pay grade, but it's crazy that we can't swipe credit card type when we come to a doctor, put in a code, and then they can see everything on one screen that that regardless which doctor we went to, right? So they can see all the prescriptions, all the tests, and everything. That is something that must change, but there are very powerful forces against that, which is a story for a different day. But I do think things are getting better. So, from a patient view, some systems now, and that's my company, what I represent. I'm not here to sell. But what I do is provide medical providers with one system. So if I give you an example that you are referred to it, you get a text message with a short form. You take a picture of your driver license and your insurance card. And then a few minutes later, you get a text message back that your insurance was confirmed, you're all good. And then it sends you a message back saying, giving you examples when if you want to come in next week or the week after or whatever. And you can just click on it and select a time. Once you've done that, you get a link where you can pay the copay with a credit card that you have in the phone. Because I mean, you have credit, most I read 80% of people in the US now have Apple Pay or Samsung Pay, right? So they can quickly pay you. Once you've done that, you get a list of the forms to fill out that are pre-filled, you know, consent to treatment and whatever. So you can spend only a few minutes updating your records, literally on the phone. And then when you come into the office, everything is like, yep, we have you. Everything is there and ready. And so it's a very smooth experience, also when you want to change it. So I do think that's a good thing. That's gonna I think many patients will see over the next year or two tremendous, tremendously better patient experience. I mean, some of the providers we worked even call it customers now, which is a change, right? Because many traditional doctors, they still take it for granted that you come in for a three o'clock appointment and you sit there till four o'clock until somebody sees you, right?

unknown 7:21

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

And that will never happen anywhere else. It's only in a medical that that would be accepted. If I have a three o'clock uh appointment with my accountant, he's gonna come out and greet me at three o'clock. Any professional, if you have a yoga $30 session, they will come on time, right? So I think technology is gonna make it much, much better in the next few years and hopefully more efficient. And and the same with billing. Uh I'm sure maybe. Yeah. So do you want to talk about that a little bit? Because it's like because I mean many, many listeners are getting these statements from United Healthcare or whichever provider they have, and they are unlegible unless you are unless you have a PhD in the building. Yeah, they are. They are like listing CPT codes, allowed amount, charged amount, and then they lit, then they list a balance, and you're not sure if you're supposed to pay this or you're not. Sometimes you get a bill from somebody who was all of a sudden side of network, and you have no idea where that's coming from. And that can be for 200 or $1,200, and you had no idea that you would have to pay extra. So, yeah, so I I do think that healthcare is gonna have to shape up literally, and over the next few years, if you as a patient go in for a treatment, doesn't matter what it is, you should know in advance what the cost of that is. And if that is $550 above for self-pay, a combination of the 20% you have to pay yourself and deductible and copay, that should be spelled out in advance. So you can know that, okay, this is gonna cost me this much. But when you do an operation or any kind of any kind of medical, I don't think you ever, do you ever, it's a question, do you ever know in advance what that's gonna cost? I don't think they do, right?

SPEAKER_00 9:46

One thing. I I I just kind of, you know, it's more like uh it comes from the point of anxiety, yeah. Healthcare. I mean, even in India also. It's honestly, you know, it becomes really, really complicated. It's kind of, you know, this innate fear. Because honestly, any and that's why, you know, it's more like this mystery and and and complexity around insurance, medicines, billing, doctor appointments. In fact, you know, even understanding the language behind selecting which insurance to go ahead with. So I think the industry itself has been kind of a very complicated, you know, and maybe I'm speaking from a patient perspective, but if I also, because a few of my, you know, people whom I know, they have, I've seen them working in in patient care. The amount of to and fro, I should very full, I mean, you know, be straightforwardly saying it's that the worst part is there, that it all in the end completely gets, you know, restricted, focused to just the person who is handling the file or the record for that patient. And you know, they have to connect with the doctor, they have to connect with the hospital, they have to connect with the insurance and everything. I mean, it's mostly treated as this you know back office concern.

(Cont.) How Better Scheduling And Data Flow Reduce Healthcare Burnout, with Mikael Petersson

SPEAKER_01 11:15

Okay, yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. So I think what we are working on here at DCLAS Health is really trying to simplify it for both the doctor and the and the patient, making it as seamless as possible experience. And there's a lot of work to be done because any medical provider, they have historically been using something called best in class, meaning that they have one solution for text messaging, then they have another solution, a phone system that is disconnected, right? And then they have an EMR system, which is the medical aspect, and then they have a billing system, and none of these systems they are not integrated. So many times when you come to a doctor, you have to repeat things, and it's like, I mean, just this thing when you call, have you called your doctor's office recently? I mean, when you I think most listeners have called their doctor's office, right? Yeah, just the fact that they don't have a modern phone system that recognizes your name, I think it's crazy. Because my phone number hasn't changed for 15 years, and most people have the same cell phone number now for many years, right? So when you call, it should recognize it and bring up your patient card immediately. So the poor front office person at the medical provider immediately see, oh, Mr. Peterson, I see that is. I mean, they immediately see everything on one screen that pertains to me. So I think that alone would be really a big help because that would make it seamless to call. And another thing we're working on that we're actually seeing a lot of interest in is that you can go online and do self-scheduling, meaning that you can schedule your next appointment yourself. And there is from what doctors told me, 30, 40 percent of the people are very interested in that. Not only younger, but more like tech savvy or people on the go and they go, like they don't need to talk to somebody. If they can just go online, put in their whatever personal date of birth, name, and then they get a text message, a login verification of some kind, then they can see the available times for the doctors that they have a reason to see for the next whatever four weeks. That's a typical so I think that's that would be really nice as well to have that and scale so you can make healthcare more accessible.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

Yeah, of course. That is, I think for me, and uh I'm very sure listeners will also agree that accessibility it's such a key part. And also, Michael, in healthcare, I mean, I believe you'll agree with me. Like we see this pattern. I mean, something gets simplified, there is relief, and then you know, slowly the complexity creeps back in. Or maybe, you know, there could be probably resistance, you know, a lot of organizations, the systems they have been using, it feels like you know, load-bearing walls, like scary to touch. How do organizations how how can they hold on to the progress you know they have made? Like what do you say to teams who are actually tired of trying again?

SPEAKER_01 15:09

You mean teams inside the medical provider?

SPEAKER_00 15:12

So what do you mean who are trying to, you know, make it yeah, make it both accessible, like these kind of healthcare solutions that you're bringing to the table.

unknown 15:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

I think it takes I think it takes a very forward-looking leadership in there, and doctors are enormously well educated and smart, ten times smarter than I ever will be. Look at what they went through to get their degree. But very few doctors are technical, they are not, they're the opposite to a computer developer. And many, I have a feeling many of them have an adverse relationship with a computer and systems because they became expert in something else, in biochemistry and things that are beyond my mental capacity. It's not a criticism, and therefore they hesitate in making the necessary financial and organizational commitments and say, we need to find solutions. Like we talked about phone systems and text messaging, and there's like probably 10, 15 different things there that they need to do, payments make it easy. So they hesitate. So as a result, their team is not gonna they can't do anything. So if you if you don't have the C level leadership, even in a small one doctor practice that wants to achieve this, shall we say, seamless customer-patient experience, it's it's not gonna happen. So I think there's a lot of people that work for medical providers that are very frustrated. They work on they can see on the screen that they have an old computer system that is very arcane. And then they need to copy and paste the phone number to text to send a text message. And the systems are not connected, and then when the phone rings, it's an old-fashioned phone as it was 30 years ago. There is no connection between it, they have no rec record of the phone call to replace, and that it was a quick follow-up action. Because in modern with AI now, with Claude, Gemini, and ChatGPT just exploding this year, right? This year is the way it's really when you live in this very small area of where you are on the front end of technology, you take it for granted that the phone call is AI recorded. And when you hang up, if you're the front end person that has an office, a team member, as you said, right? There is a summary of the call saying, and there is a summary of actions, and you can just approve that in 20 seconds and read it and go like, and now there is a task assigned to the doctor, there's a task assigned to a scheduler, and and maybe to somebody to send an updated prescription to CBS or Walgreens, or whatever the customer asked for. They don't need to go like scream in the office, hey Steve, can you can you update? Come here, I need you to send us prescription. I mean, the AI tools that we have are fantastic now. They just need to learn to deploy them. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 18:48

Or absolutely, honestly. Very, very honestly.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

So I think in summary, that's the big thing for my sub the tool and the technology is there to make it absolutely a great consumer experience, but it is not yeah, it's not really happening yet more than in a few places. So that's what we hope will happen.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

Absolutely, absolutely. And and before we wrap up, do you do you believe uh maybe the slow growth is it because of the complexity of the entire scenario, or maybe it's because of the resistance in there? I mean, just kind of you know, uh, maybe in your own experience what you have observed.

SPEAKER_01 19:46

I think it is fear of the unknown. Because if you are not if you are a doctor, right?

SPEAKER_02 20:01

You you don't know what uh modern systems can do, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:11

And so I think that is I think it's fear of the unknown. I think that's why small medium-sized providers do not invest in technology as much as they should, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

But I think um AI has is now becoming very much instrumental in, you know, simplifying and also at the same time, it doesn't have to be this premium or you know, very flashy looking tool or system. I mean, somebody who I think, you know, you know, who is as as a from a leader perspective, I'm saying that, you know, they can recalibrate because, you know, they're trying to build into their system. I think it all starts with someone being willing to actually look at what's actually happening at the ground level, not just what what looks good on paper or you know what looks like a great looking tool, but actually doesn't serve any purpose for both the providers and the patients.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

I think that's correct, yes. So hopefully, if we have a conversation in a year again, we go like, oh my god, how much has happened? It's unbelievable that so many of these customers or so many of these are now like um doing all these modern things, right? So stay tuned, stay tuned, I guess, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:49

Yeah, that's right. Stay tuned. And of course, you know, still, Michael listeners, if they would like to learn more about your work, you know, whether they are in healthcare or in leadership, or maybe you know, they are just curious for you know about how systems and well-being. They are intersecting. Where they can find you and you know, learn more about what eClouds Health is building.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

So the easiest is to just go on uh LinkedIn and type in Michael Peterson, M-I-K-A-E-L, Swedish, and then Peterson with two S, or just email me under Michael M-I-K-A-E-L at eClouds, e-c-l-o-uds.cl. So, and I will respond to every message. Even and I'll be happy to talk to anybody that just wanna brainstorm about the possible. It doesn't have to be anything, it doesn't have to be about selling.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Yeah, I agree, I agree. Yes, so listeners, feel free to reach out to Michael. And uh I think I think you know what we can definitely take away from this today's conversation is is the beginning, you know, of the of the realization that health of a system and health of the people inside it, they're never really separate things. And Michael, thank you so much, first of all. Really appreciate for what you are doing, especially for such such a crucial and also at the same time, you know, complicated as well. I think it touches every one of our lives, the work that you're doing. And yeah, I mean, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

No, you're you're welcome. Hopefully, we'll connect again soon. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

Absolutely, absolutely. And to listen, thank you for tuning in to this episode of Healthy Mind, Healthy Life. If today's episode connected with you, share it with someone who also needs to hear it. And this is your host Sana. I'll catch you in the next episode. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_03 23:54

Bye bye. Thank you.