The Sunday Night Weight

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Most of us has felt it at some point that sudden evening heaviness, whether that being a Sunday or a Friday, the alarm goes off on Monday and something inside you just resists and yet you need to show up. We keep going, not because we don't feel it, but because somewhere underneath that exhaustion lies something that's worth staying for. And today we're going to sit with that tension, honestly, because the conversation about work and well-being isn't loving your job every single day, but more about understanding what's actually happening inside of you. One that most of us are afraid to say out loud.

Meeting Tony And Naming The Tension

SPEAKER_00 1:01

My guest today is Tony. Tony Taneglier, a quality manager in the aerospace industry, a PhD candidate in industrial organizational psychology, a columnist, a yoga teacher, and the host of the podcast Work Sucks, but I like it. And the author of two books as well, Exploring Discipline, Meaning, and Modern Professional Life. So, Tony, I think there's really a lot to unpack there. So I welcome the show. It's uh it's uh it's an honor to have you here with me and really glad that you're here and we could talk about you know something that's almost uh inside every one of us, but you know, we rarely talk about. So it's a pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Awesome, sign. Well, thank you. It's an honor to be here.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Thanks, Tony. So before we get into everything, I want to ask because uh you come from the aerospace industry, so uh before I mean we really uh go deeper into how that stress really comes into play. When when did you first realize that the way that most people talk about work wasn't just you know the whole truth? Was there a moment or a season in your life where you think something shifted for you indeed?

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, I've heard, you know, working now for almost 15 years in the aerospace automotive industry, you know, I've come across people that'll say, oh, you know, same crap, different day, you know, and I can't wait till retirement. And they say these things, right? And, you know, you talked about like the Monday morning, it sucks to get up, right? But what I've found is yes, they say these things, but what they also show where they don't seem to want to talk about is they enjoy their work. And as you pointed out, I love understanding that tension of why do we, why is a culture, workplace culture, do we accept that, oh, it's okay to say, you know, same shit, different day, you know, I can't wait to have five weeks vacation. It's almost like we're yearning for something like in the distance, can't wait to get to retirement, right? But at the same time, people are struggling or don't have the mediums to talk about how work can be enjoyable. And that's what I really love sort of exploring. And when I realized, you know, that with people, I was like, well, wait a minute. I want to talk about the stuff that you do enjoy about work. Yes, there's aspects of work that suck, but let's also incorporate into the conversation the things that you do like about work.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Yeah, that that's really important to frame, I think, because you know, you you really can't love everything about your work. I think you know, that realization that there will be some parts of it that you know you you wouldn't just naturally like, and to really generalize that to every work that you do, I think that is something that uh most of us really miss, at least early on in their life. So I think there's also a phrase that floats around a lot right now that just find your pasture, you know, find your flow, and you will never walk a day in your life. We have heard that, right? So I think a lot of people have tried to believe that in I mean to some degree, right? And and then quietly felt, you know, that it didn't really showed up the way it should. So, in your experience, what's the most common misconception that people really carry about this particular phrase, you know, about work and well-being that really ends up quietly making things harder for them?

The Passion Myth And The Pearl

SPEAKER_01 4:18

No, absolutely fine. So it's really comes down to, like you said before, it's like this idea of passion is like, let's go get it. And all these self-help books say, you know, if you find a job, you never work a day in your life, which is fine, right? But we're overlooking, to me, self-help today is a little bit too cliche. It's too, you know, let's do four-hour work weeks and five hacks to get happier. And it's like, yes, those are important. There's a time and place for those, but we also have to realize that our work, there's going to be friction points. And the way I like to think of it is that, you know, you have an oyster down at like the bottom of the ocean, right? And it's got a piece of grit that gets inside. And the oyster is like, man, why is oysters don't have thoughts, but if I was an oyster, I'd be thinking, hey, why is this piece of grit in me? And in the process of like trying to get this thing out, it becomes a pearl, right? So to me, yes, we are all talking about the pearls that we want. We want to have the dream job and this and that. But I think we're we got to get back to realizing that the practice, the work that we put in prior to these states of winning the championship, crossing the finish line, getting the report out, getting the promotion, it had to come from a lot of hard work that potentially sucked.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

Indeed, that's also important to name. But if I ask you this one single question, Tony, that, you know, if you find your passion, you will never walk a day in your life. How true do you think that is? And if that is even applicable to what you have seen in the industry.

From Doing More To Being More

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Yeah, I don't think it's, I mean, it's such a I mean, we all love to like check things off, right? And I think that's sort of like, you know, to me, it's like, okay, you find your passion, you check it off, and then I can just get to retirement. I don't look at so the difference I kind of see things now is this concept of doing and being, right? We do a lot of different things. We get up in the morning, we fight gravity, right? We brush our teeth, we put the clothes on, we drive to work, or we get on our computer for an entrepreneur, whatever it is. So we do a lot of different things. And, you know, even though people have told me I do a lot of things, I say right back to them, we have 24 hours in a day, seven days a week. Everybody's doing something, right? So however you want to label that. But what I'm getting at is we have to go from doing to being, right? So yes, we're doing a lot of things, but who are you being in this process, right? So if you really love, you know, your your work, yes, there's a time where you're gonna say, I'm passionate about it. But then I guess the question really becomes, yes, I'm doing this work, but who are you being when you do this work? That's kind of like the direction I'm trying to steer it.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

I love it. I think you know that really shaves the conversation from what really people idealize versus you know, what's what's better being more realistic, right? So there's a very fine line of being an optimist versus you know someone who is realistic, right? And I think that's an important distinction, Tony, because it it really sounds like that clarity can often feel uncomfortable because you know, I mean, b because someone misunderstood it as relief, right? Like you said, so maybe it's like a checklist, right? That you would check off rather and then look at the retirement plan. So I think and in that process of you know reaching to that state, reaching that goal, and whatever hard work comes in between, like you said, I think burnout has become that one buzzword, I would say, in the corporate that we almost use casually

Burnout Roots In Hustle Culture

SPEAKER_00 7:40

now. So I want to understand what's really underneath it, like when you look at burnout at that deeper level, I think the psychological and behavioral roots are obviously there of an individual, but why does someone even end up being burned out? And uh, what do you tend to find that there are most people that they are really are not paying attention to that?

SPEAKER_01 8:06

Yeah, and no, I mean, let's face it, we're in a hustle culture, right? We want more. We have this fear of missing out more than ever with social media. I gotta have a car, I gotta have, you know, this dream job, I gotta have a house, I gotta have whatever, right? And I guess like in terms of burnout, now just for you listeners and for yourself, Syan, I've definitely burned out, right? So I've learned myself kind of, you know, where the threshold is with being, I guess use the word passionate with my work, but also understanding sort of the reality of like I can't do it all in a day. And I guess how I've looked at burnout more recently is really that like I go back to this thing of doing all these things, right? We're doing all these different things. And to me, what I've found when I've burned out is when I have expectations that are very high on all the things that I'm doing, right? So, what do I mean by that? So right now I'm working, you know, my nine to five job, I'm doing my PhD part-time, I'm writing a book, I'm doing all these things. Now, if I had every single day the same intensity on all of these different things, that's how I burned out. What I've learned is you have to kind of like prioritize. It's like a dance. I'm not saying give up on something. And if you're trying to be a parent, I'm not saying don't be a good parent every day. But it's this sort of like, you know, subjective sort of like assessment of your expectations with respect to what you're doing. And that's the individual side.

Why Management Must See People

SPEAKER_01 9:25

But you have the system side, right? You have corporations that, yeah, you've got the crappy boss, you've got the crappy workplace culture, right? So it definitely takes two to tango with burnout. And I think just one thing I want to say with that in terms of workplace culture, that's where I find that it's very important today for, especially, you know, middle managers, you know, that kind of leadership, they have a very important role at the company because they bridge sort of the people down at the floor and then the top management, which sometimes there's a divide that I've seen in manufacturing 100%. And to avoid burnout for middle managers and for like the people below, if you will. And I don't mean below as like a you know hierarchical thing. I just mean in terms of people on the floor, is that we need to start appreciating more than just the transactions of business. So business, we're so used to, okay, I've got employee number one, two, three, four, and they're gonna do this widget. They're gonna move it to step A, B, and C. We're gonna get it to Z and we're gonna ship it, we're gonna make a profit, hopefully, right? And yes, that is a part of a business. We have to take into account those different steps. But more importantly, for me to help people with burnout is really, okay, everyone's gonna be different. We have emotions, we have feelings. People are gonna show up not motivated to work some days. Some days they're gonna be real and jumping through, waiting to go, you know? And that to me is the responsibility of management today to understand that sort of flow with their employees and on the same time trying to navigate away from burnout.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Hmm. Yeah, I mean, there are a lot of nuances in right there, what you said, right? Because we always tend to look at those transactions, definitely important for any business. But oftentimes we don't really find moment to appreciate people, you know. And when I say that, I mean like having flaws on the people management side, and I think that's more tied into you know how leadership approaches, and you know, I mean, we we often hear, you know, how to become a good leader, but I think you know, uh a more important question is that should you be a leader? Because leadership is not for everybody, right? And that's a different conversation, Tony. For some others. I love that though. I love that. Yeah, but but I mean speaking of burnout, I think it really put things in perspective. So because people management indeed, it's it's uh it plays a crucial role in how an individual feels, you know, when they walk outside of their office, outside, I mean, I mean in their personal lives, right? So I'm I'm curious as to for all the listeners who are listening to this right now, if I were to ask you one last question before we wrap this off, uh, because you do a lot of things. So you talk about work being, you know, a context where character, clarity, and fulfillment are developed over time. So I think I really like that framing personally, but for someone who genuinely is listening to this right now and wants to reconnect with meaning in their work, you know, where's the best place that they could

A Simple Gratitude Practice For Meaning

SPEAKER_00 12:31

actually start? So, what what would be that atomic piece of advice that you would like to give to someone?

SPEAKER_01 12:36

Yeah, no, I mean it goes back to kind of what you're saying with the just like being appreciative of these flaws. And for the listeners out there, I just recommend doing the simple activity, you know. So for the past so many years, I have a young brother that I'm very close with. And, you know, we focus a lot on the negative today, right? Everything is, especially with corporations, right? Manufacturing is like, well, we need 5% scrap or less. Well, what about the 95% that was good? You know, we just talk, the language is so negative. So what I recommend when people are frustrated and feeling like, what am I doing? And you know, this is all like going to hell, if you will. Take the time, find an accountability partner. So what I do with my brother, I text three things at night that I'm grateful for, that went well for me, that was positive. And he does the same. And what I've learned from, I'll be honest with you, is that for a long time, I was prioritizing my work. And he'd be like, Well, I got to spend time with my daughter and my wife. And I'm like, oh man, I'm not like appreciating these things that I should be. So he was teaching me to be like, okay, you got to like balance this work-life thing. So, really, the thing to take away is be appreciative of three things every day. Because that's gonna just start changing the language from that negativity that we find everywhere to more positive. And that's what we really need to be, again, as your podcast is healthy mind, healthy life.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

Absolutely. I I love that. And uh, what it really does, you know, from a mental vantage point is that it really forces you to find positives in, you know, no matter how how negative the overall situation is. And that that I think you know changes the whole game because then you would not blame your situation or circumstances for really, you know, pulling it down because you know, you're you're training your brain in that very moment to find those positives, like you said, right? Like and writing is such a thing. I mean, writing it with you know, pen and a paper is so different than writing it on, you know, digitally on a notepad. I think that is something that also I would like to add and perhaps advise my listeners. But folks, to all of you are listening to this right now, if I had to share one key takeaway from this conversation, I think meaning at work isn't something that you will find once. And you know, it will just happen like that and keep it forever. It's something that you need to return to, adapt, you know, relearn, unlearn. And again and again, and through this process, you will really find a way of how honestly you can really show up at work. So that is what I would ultimately like you to move forth with as we wrap

Quiz, Contact Options, And Closing

SPEAKER_00 15:20

this off. But uh, Tony, for listeners who are actually connected with you know some part or perhaps resonated with the whole of the conversation and wants to go deeper into your work and your podcast. I love your podcast name, by the way, and your books as well. Where can I find you? Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

No, I appreciate that. So I guess to me, you know, people have a lot of goals, they have these directions where they want to head. And I'm all for that, right? You know, I love a lot of books, you know, you see the books behind me to get motivated towards these goals. But the thing that I found is most important when you're frustrated and when you're feeling like, you know, disappointed in your work, you have to know where you are. So basically, what I've developed on the website worksbylike it.com slash quiz, you can go and take the quiz to figure out where you are right now with respect to the flow channel. Because when you understand where you are, then you can take the next step to get to flowing into the work that you want to do.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Perfect, perfect. So so is that in the website that you share?

SPEAKER_01 16:18

Yeah, sorry, worksbut I like it.com slash quiz.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

Okay. Noted. So we'll have that in the show notes, folks, for all of you so that you could directly take the quiz. And Tony, also, what's the best place for them to you know have a word, you know, have send send you a DM? Uh where's the most, I mean, what's the most reachable place for them to reach reach out to you at?

SPEAKER_01 16:38

You know, I'll be honest with you, social media is tough for me. I don't have Facebook, I don't really like Instagram, I don't like being on any of them, to be honest. But if I am on LinkedIn, you can reach out there. I do my best to to you know to message you. It's not that I'm ignoring you. I just it's overwhelming, right? As you know, social media, you can go down these rabbit holes for hours, and I try to be very disciplined with being off it. So in having conversations like this, you know, that these are to me more valuable. Not that a message from you listeners would not be, but just I'd rather be talking in person.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

Yeah, that's that I think really sums it up for today's conversation. To the point, short, and concise. So Tony, thank you so much, really. I think this has been one of those conversations that we do need to sit more often with, you know, because I think this whole corporate culture right now, I think, yeah, it's changing, but I think it could change faster, and that could really happen when people, and when I say people, both the leaders and people who are in the non-leadership roles, but especially the leaders, are aware of what is, you know, we're talking about and bring that kind of awareness into their daily lives. So to everyone listening, folks, if something today gave you that moment of recognition, just sit with it. And yeah, this has been Cyan on Healthy Mind Healthy Life, part of the Healthy Mind by our Vake Network, and take care of yourself, and we'll see you the next one.