Rightlessness And Being Yourself

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Think about the last time you felt completely yourself around someone. Very few, listeners, at least for me. Yeah. But no performing. You know what I'm talking about? Like no performing, no bracing. You are just at ease. You are in that space, in that zone where you know you are being just yourself. And that's what it is. Rightlessness. I mean, it's rarer than it should be. And here's the thing that feeling of being genuinely seen and heard, it isn't a luxury, it isn't a privilege. It might be one of the quietest, most underrated things our mental health runs on. So, for this episode of Healthy Mind Healthy Life, that's what exactly we are going to talk about. So, yes, you are tuning into Healthy Mind, Healthy Life podcast listeners. I am Sana. And if you are listening, maybe you are doing your dishes right now, you know, maybe you're making your dinner or making your breakfast or you're out on a walk. Yes, this is a warm one. Because I am joined by someone who has spent over a decade in the host's chair, worked for an Arts in Health nonprofit, and he also built a whole mission around helping people feel like the best version of themselves. So, listeners, let's get started and let's welcome our guest, Richard Woolmore. So, Richard, welcome to Helldy Mine Hilde. It's a joy to have you here.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Thanks for having me. That intro was amazing. I'm excited to chat now.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Absolutely. Me too. Me too. And Richard, uh, let's let's begin with your with

Talk Shows And The Rise Of Podcasts

SPEAKER_00 1:50

something from your story, which kind of really makes me curious. You trace your whole path back to watching a talk show as a kid and seeing in your words a masterclass in connection. And and you know what? This I don't know whether it's a coincidence or yeah, because you know, I a few days back I didn't know that I'm scheduled to host you, but I was watching Jimmy Kimmel and then Mashuni Callins. And man, I was kind of wondering, are podcasts kind of the the long lost brothers or sisters of talk shows or like the modified version of that? I was just wondering, just wondering, but but you know, it kind of made me curious about this. But anyway, I mean, Richard, what do you think? What do you think? You know, what what was that feeling like? You know, what exactly what exactly did you connect with when you watched that talk show? And what do you think most of us are misunderstanding that why feelings seem like it does matter so much?

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Oh my gosh, there's there's so much to unpack there. Right. One, yeah, I think that that podcasting is almost taking over what talk shows used to be.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Because we're seeing a lot of of podcasts starting to have sets built and having big production value, and they're now on streaming platforms. And I think it's because people want to see like a genuine connection between two people that doesn't feel like it's for the camera. And I think talk shows are so presentational and they're such big productions. And we also get to they're so celebrity-driven, and we get to see celebrities all the time now with social media, right? That it's nice to watch someone, even if it's a celebrity, feel like they're on Zoom, like you're on Zoom at work, and it feels more like you're hanging out with them, like kind of the Rosie O'Donnell show was when I fell in love with that genre. It felt like no matter if you were in the audience of her show, if you were at on the stage of that show, if you were watching at home, everyone mattered to her. And she was so excited. She was one of the first or the only talk shows that in the studio lights had to be up so she could see the audience. Most talk shows you go to, the lights are down in the audience. And she wanted them up because she they were the audience was so important, and it was just no matter who you were, why you were there, you were celebrated, and there was no fear of being on that show. And as a 12-year-old, that's what I craved, and that's what I wanted, and that's what drew me to it. Like I knew from that moment that's what I wanted to do with the rest of my life.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

That's very well put, honestly, Richard. And that's what I believe. I mean, I I'm not going to dive deeper into the celebrity or non-servity side because I believe it's it's different for different people, you know, the way everybody everyone would do. But I believe, irrespective of all that, I've had guests with whom it felt like I wasn't even doing a recording or forecasting. It was just, you know, like 30, 45 minutes, one hour long of, you know, just just getting to understand each other, getting to talk about different aspects, you know, around either it was mental health or entrepreneurship or or business or physical wellness or spirituality, you know. And and like you go places, you know, like the variations, the the either you are are divering away from the main topic, but then you are having a very fun and freeing conversation, you know, where you feel yourself, yeah, you feel that you are there, you are heard, you are seen, and you're also giving that exact space to the person you're talking with. So I completely, you know, I I can connect with what you you understand, what you believe.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

Yeah, and I feel like I am so lucky I get to learn every day, whether it's from someone I'm interviewing or from a podcast that I'm I'm producing that's filming in my studio. Like I get to surround myself with people who are so knowledgeable about whatever their expertise is, and I get to learn from them, and it's in a in a way that you wouldn't do it walking down the street, you know. So many people that you wouldn't talk to. You get to have 15-minute or an hour-long conversation with a complete stranger, and that never happens.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Yeah, I agree, I agree.

How The Arts Support Healing

SPEAKER_00 6:56

And Arjun, moving on, you worked in arts in health, which sits right at the intersection of creativity and well-being. Now, I have I have interviewed, I have been in discussion with guests who are working in the intersection of creativity and business, which I feel is a very different place to be in, working in. But I'm very, very curious. Creativity and well-being. Now, this can be connected, this could be connected with mental well-being. This could also be connected with the physical well-being or you know, emotional, spiritual well-being. So for someone like me, or you know, many of our listeners who's never thought of themselves as creative, what exactly happens underneath, you know, when a person makes something, whether it's it's uh music or it's art or it's movement, it's uh or or expresses themselves. You know, why does it do something so good for the mind?

SPEAKER_01 8:02

I don't consider myself an artist either. That's why it was so surprising when when I started to work for that nonprofit because I thought, well, I can't paint, I can't sing, I can't write a book. Like, what am I doing here? And it completely changed my life. There's so many studies out there about the health benefits of engaging in the arts, and that's even down to just visiting museums, like not even actually creating the art, but being surrounded and ingesting art is good for your health. And there are studies, so we worked with adult long-term hospital patients and the and the staff, and there are studies that have been recorded that healing times have have decreased because they've engaged in the arts, that overall well-being for them and their family is is better. And it's kind of the art of distraction a little bit, where you're not sitting there thinking about everything that's wrong with you, that you get to create something, whether that's quote unquote good or bad. It it lets you express yourself if you're in a hospital because you have a terminal illness and it's really hard to express yourself. Painting, great way to do that, you know? Grab a canvas, grab some paint, and just throw it on there. It doesn't have to have a rhyme or a reason, but it's it's getting it out of your body and onto something physical. Is there are many studies out there about that as well. It was the best seven years of my entire life. I got to meet amazing people. I know I had one, so my job when I first started there was to go to every hospital room and say, Hey, we're having an art class today. Do you want to come? Or we're doing this today, do you want to come? And they're adults, and we are afraid as adults to create art sometimes, you know? Because we don't want it to be bad. And so I'd I'd hear no a lot. And finally, after weeks of going into one man's room, he finally said, All right, Richard, fine, I'll come today. Like, you got me, you wore me down. And he came to an art class and he walked out of that art class after two hours and had tears in his eyes. And he said, and he shook my hand and he said, Richard, I'm an artist. And I, of course, just broke down crying because I was like, Yeah, that's you know, like that's the whole point of it. You have patients who will cancer patients who will schedule their treatments around when an art class is happening or around when music is happening, because it's so important to their mental health while they're there. And it's almost like it's too easy that we don't believe it, you know? Like, what do you mean? I can just write down my feelings, or I can listen to music and I'm going to somehow heal faster. Like, that's too easy, but it's true.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

Yes.

Safe Spaces And The Return Of Play

SPEAKER_00 11:16

Okay, and Richard, that makes me really think about so you mentioned about those seven years, and when I look back at the specific year when I was at the lowest of my lowest, you know, the I can say the the I shouldn't say weakest. No, I would I was just I was just not in the right state of mind. And just just looking so so I I have a thing for stationery. So let me share that out loud. I'm very sure many of our listeners, you know, very connected. Like where you you you go into this like a toy store or maybe a kangy shop or maybe a stationary shop, and you feel like this, you know, this inner child coming out within or or just that kid who is feeling this love for either sketch pens or or crayons or colour books. And this is not for the aesthetics or the beauty of it. It's it's just for me, it was for nostalgia and that comfort. That comfort that my my inner self was craving for. So I I believe that the that kind of feeling is a very, very different one. And at the same time, I also believe, Richard, that spaces or communities or groups, you know, where these these ways are facilitated. I believe the first, the the the biggest non-negotiable there should be that there's no judgment in there. You are there's no there's no allowance or there is no provision. There's just you go and you be yourself, but of course having created safe space not only for yourself and for others as well. So there is this individual and collective creation of safe spaces. That's what I believe, you know, because you are it during the these phases, you are also a bit vulnerable, and um you you know, sometimes you can be a bit too cynical, or maybe you can take things with a pinch of salt. So I believe that safe psychological safe space is a is one of the biggest, biggest, the most important element in creation of spaces like this.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Yeah, we don't get to play anymore. Yeah. Like you become an adult and everything's so serious, and you can't do it unless you're whatever it is. You you have to be good at it. You can't do it if you aren't if if it doesn't turn out exactly how you pictured it, or if it's not if there isn't the end game, isn't money, or you know, whatever it is. And and I mean, look at what we create when we're kids, and we one don't care what other people think because we think whatever we've made is amazing, and we're so proud of it, and it needs to be hung on a wall or on a refrigerator, no matter what it is, because what we're just so proud of ourselves as kids, and then we start getting self-conscious, and yeah, like we don't get to explore that side of us anymore, and and when you can do that, you open up this entire side of yourself that has been dormant since you were a kid, and you realize how much fun you can have with life, and the fact that it's making you a better, healthier, more rounded person. But we don't we don't think about it because we're too busy wondering when we have to wake up next or when the kids need to be fat or what time work starts.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

And also Richard, as I mentioned about you know, childhood, I believe now being of our listeners would definitely be able to connect with this, that some of these experiences, you know, they can also connect with I mean sometimes very sensitive, very tender, traumatic or abusive moments experiences from the childhood.

Letting Trauma Out Of Your Body

SPEAKER_00 15:36

And and we know that you know they they do get imprinted, you know, in in in subconscious. So in such scenarios, how what do you think how arts or exploring creativity not from this you know point of perfection, but just as this way of expressing yourself can help, you know, because these are very heavy memories or experiences that a person can have or a person is inflicted upon. So what what do you think?

SPEAKER_01 16:13

Yeah, I mean, bottling up emotions, bottling up trauma, not expressing it in any way, whether that's through talk therapy or painting or writing music, it's going to damage you even more. It's going to cause sickness, it's going to cause depression. There's, you know, like all it's going to just snowball the the longer you don't do something with it. I always think like when I have lots of thoughts in my head, whether it's just like, oh, I have to do this for work tomorrow or that to work tomorrow or whatever, if it's in your head and it's spinning around, you lay at night trying to sleep, but you're awake because you have to remember all of these things. But the moment I just write down a simple list, these are the things I have to do tomorrow, it's it's now it's transferred. And now I can go to sleep. Like I don't have to think about it anymore because it's right here. And it's the same thing with with trauma, and it's the same thing with with your health in general, you know, like all of those thoughts, all of those feelings are just spinning around in your head, probably getting bigger and more dramatic than than they actually are. And when you're allowed to get them out, no matter what that is, if it's gardening, if that is poetry, it's such a a legitimate release of all of those feelings. And that's not to say that you shouldn't be going to therapy if the you know if there's extreme trauma or going to a doctor, if if you're ill, but it is a very important part of the healing process.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

I agree, I wholeheartedly agree with Chad on this.

Simple Creative Steps That Actually Work

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Okay, and and for someone who hears this, Richard, and realizes that they have gone quiet creatively or or in how connected they feel. Where do they actually begin? And and and you know, it's not something like, you know, yeah, let's let's go become an artist, you know, not build a big audience. You know, just a real doable, small first step back toward expressing themselves and feeling heard.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

I feel like I have a couple things. One would be like create a playlist, create a play, like how are you feeling now? And think of the songs that you would want to play in the in the moment now that in the feelings that you're feeling now. And then think about the music that you listen to, the opposite of that, when you're very happy, when you're when you're feeling really great, when you're in a really good mood, what does that list look like? And compare the two and try to try to put yourself and use that that fun playlist as a way to kind of change your mood. Another thing I love to do when I'm frustrated with work, because I work with a lot of technical stuff that I don't understand and it breaks all the time, is I walk away and I grab my dog and I go outside and I walk. And I don't put headphones on, I listen to the birds and I listen to the water, and I let nature kind of make a soundtrack for me. And so many questions that I have are answered in those moments when I'm just completely disconnecting.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

Wow. I I I really, really love that. Now, the the the city I'm in or the place I'm in, I so I usually either would enjoy the the breeze or the chirping of birds. And if that is not possible, then at least you know I can immerse myself in watching or just just listening, not even watching, just listening to these documentary-style videos, universe or cosmic, you know, mysteries, not mysteries, but you know, just about the observable universe and all stuff like that. Because that really, really soothes me. And uh it it's kind of you know, it it doesn't only help me in in in getting soothed, but but it gives me that curiosity as well.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

Or or just makes me wonder, or just imagine that, you know, what does stargazing look like? You know, if you go on the top and you mount maybe on a mountaintop and you just put your you know telescope in there, what all you will be able to see. So yeah, things like that.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

Yeah, yeah, completely disconnecting from whatever as much as you can from like sort of reality. And and you'd be surprised at what feels better and what what answers you already kind of have in your mind if you let yourself go there.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And

Being Seen Without Chasing Numbers

SPEAKER_00 21:15

before we conclude, Richard. Someone starts opening up, sharing, putting a bit of themselves out there, and then it it doesn't land. Like after all after all your years helping people feel heard, what do you wish what do you most wish people understood about being truly seen?

SPEAKER_01 21:40

I think when we're putting ourselves out there kind of in the social world, in the social media world, yeah, it feels like if you don't have a million people watching your video, that it doesn't mean anything and that it wasn't successful. And I think you really have to trust that whoever needs to see it, whoever needs to hear your message will will find it. And sometimes maybe you're just talking for yourself and not necessarily for an audience, you know? Like maybe you start by just writing in on a on a blog that no one knows about, or you start making videos for yourself and not putting them out there. I think we're we're so like, well, everybody has to see it. Everybody, you know, like that we're in that mentality that, like, well, I have I have to do everything in public and everything has to be posted, but it doesn't. You can write and never publish a book because maybe the book was just for you, and that's also very important.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

It is, it is. That's beautifully, beautifully put, Richard.

Where To Find Richard And Final Invitation

SPEAKER_00 22:57

And for our listeners, if they would like to find you, connect with you, and also explore your work, what are the ways they can reach out to you?

SPEAKER_01 23:08

Yeah, I mean, if you look up Richard Wilmore, I'm all over the place. You can also just go to makeyourdayricher.com and everything kind of lives there as well.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Amazing. So, listeners, you heard it from Richards, and you know what I'll do. So I'll have all the links mentioned in the show notes. So do find them attached along with this episode. And uh thank you so much, Richard, for this really, really warm and genuinely uplifting, uplifting conversation. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

And to all the listeners, okay. Let's there's this is like a small invitation for today or tonight, whenever, wherever you're listening from. Share one true thing today. Make something small, or maybe really listen to someone and let yourself be seen a little. That's where it starts. So, with this, we wrap up this episode of Healthy Man, Healthy Life. Be gentle with yourself and let yourself be heard. I'm Sana, and I'll be back soon with another episode. Thank you so much.