Welcome And Why This Matters

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Hi, and welcome back to Healthy Mind, Healthy Life. I am Archita, and this is the space where we slow down and have the conversations, real life keeps interrupting. Today I am joined by Jordan Miller to talk about something almost all of us are quietly struggling with: technology, attention, and inner peace. We are going to look at why our minds feel so scattered, what's actually happening underneath the noise, and what it takes to come back to ourselves in a world designed to pull us away. If you have been feeling stretched thin, this one is for you. Hi Jordan, welcome to Healthy Mind, Healthy Life. It's such a pleasure to host you today.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Thank you. I'm really glad to be here.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Thank you for being here. And I think this topic is very important, especially in today's time. And I'm really excited to have this conversation with you, Jordan.

When Technology Quietly Takes Over

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Before we go deep, I I want to start somewhere honest. So, Jordan, when you think about your own relationship with technology and attention, was there a specific moment where you realized something had quietly shifted that you weren't where you thought you were anymore?

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Yes, I feel I feel like it's been a constant shift throughout my life with technology. So but I'd say kind of most recently I've had kind of the experience of coming back to a kind of peace with technology. I think you go through these kind of phases where things are complex and almost feel out of control, and then they all kind of come together and they and then you feel kind of a moment of peace where everything is simple and I don't know. And so that's kind of um the where I've come to most recently, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Yeah, yeah, that makes so much sense. And honestly, a lot of our listeners will be able to resonate with what you just said as well, because technology has evolved so much with time, and so have we. So it's only appropriate to say that our relationship with uh technology has overcome so many things over the past few years, especially. So, yeah, that that is totally relatable, and this completely sets a tone for this entire conversation as well.

The Attention Economy And Self Blame

SPEAKER_01 2:46

So, Jordan, now I want to start with something I think gets misunderstood. Most of us blame ourselves when we feel scattered or addicted to our screens. We think we have a discipline problem, but from your perspective, is that actually the right diagnosis, or is there something else going on that we keep missing?

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Well, everything is streaming for our attention at all times. Our strings, our technology, our jobs, our economic, you know, requirements, maintenance on our on you know, whatever we own. Everything we have is and everything we know about is looking for our attention, trying to grab it away. You know, it and so it's I would say, first of all, it's it's not necessarily our fault that we feel that our technology is is capturing so much of our attention because it's designed to do that. And everything around it is made so that it our attention is the most valuable thing in the world. And so that's why everything wants it from us, right? Our attention, if you put your attention on something, it tends to improve over time. I think that's kind of the bottom line value of our attention. So if you if you're with your family and you're completely present, well, your relationships with them tend to improve. If you spend a lot of time fixing your car, you know, it tends to not break down as often. You know, whatever we've put our attention on improves. And so everything wants our attention. It's it's since it guides our monetary choices, our economic activity, it guides what we buy and and how we spend our money. That's why it's so valuable to the economy. That's why every app and every show and every advertiser wants your your attention. So as long as that's true economically, everything's gonna want your attention if it's tied to your your money, your income, or anything like that. So I don't think it's something we should feel guilty about. I think what we need to do is take take ownership of that responsibility and know and realize that our attention is ours to give out as we deem fit. You know, take the place of the king or the god or the authority over that attention that says that that kind of speaks their desire. This is what I want, and then let our attention go to that place and it try to improve it. I was just I was just talking to someone the other day, telling them how I've been working on some specific projects for a while, and and I want to start working on a different project that's very different, but I've I've worked on it in the past. And I found myself using language like, I need to start talking about this and thinking about this because I have to get back into that mindset. I'm trying to guide my attention back to that project. And so I don't think we should act as dictator over our attention either. I think this the best way is to act as kind of a a guide of our mental processes because they're gonna do what they're gonna do as well. So we're kind of caught in the middle between the inner mental processes, which are largely out of our control too, and the outer forces that are trying to, you know, grab the attention of our minds. And it's our job to kind of be the director, to kind of be the traffic controller and say, no, it's your turn, it's not your turn. So anyway, that's kind of what I would say about that that kind of dichotomy of where we place our attention.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Absolutely, I hundred percent agree because I think attention is something that's of great value, really, just like you explained. I think it's really important that we as humans think before we put our attention anywhere, just like we invest our money, our time. I think attention is of equal importance, if not more, and that reframe matters so much because you can't heal something you keep blaming yourself for. So let's stay with that for a moment because I think there's a deeper layer underneath all of this.

Fragmented Minds And A Stable Core

SPEAKER_01 7:52

So let's go beneath the surface this time. Jordan, when attention gets fractured like this for years, what happens to the inner world of a person? I'm not just talking about focus, but I mean their sense of self, their emotions, their ability to be still. So, what's the real cost we are not naming here?

SPEAKER_00 8:14

Oh, interesting. There's a TV show that's that I've watched recently called Severance, and in this in this TV show, it's Apple TV. It it talks about a the premise is that you can go to work and completely, completely disconnect your mind from your home life, or and and vice versa. You could sever it. That's why it's called sabrosaic. And it it goes through this kind of fragmentation of the mind, and and so the the entire concept of the story and is what happens if you fragment your mind over and over and over again, you know, quite literally, right? It's all the theater and and whatever. So it's taken to the extreme. But I think the show shows that it's it doesn't really serve you. It's kind of the the result that the characters have gone through. It doesn't serve you to do that, to kind of completely fragment your mind. It serves those that are that are outside your mind, and that can kind of have have more power over the individual pieces of you because you're not connected. And so I found the show to be an interesting one, but I think it's its premise and and its conclusion is basically the basically right that doing this kind of severing isn't healthy. This fracturing, where we are different people in different situations, or we don't take things into account. We're not one whole person. I don't think it's possible to be one whole person at all times, because you have to you have to kind of build mental habits for different different activities. So there's always going to be this kind of spraying at the edges, if I could put it that way. But underneath the core, we need to maintain that central identity. And I kind of like the Eastern perspective that says, what is that identity? You know, the Western perspective doesn't really have an identity. It says, well, you're a machine. You know, I mean, we we got rid of God before we were we were machines created by God. That's kind of the old East Western point of point of view perspective, the kind of classical Catholicism perspective. It's that there was one God, and that's that's outside you, and it's not you, and you're just a little machine. Uh the Eastern perspective to me kind of communicates that whatever your awareness is, is kind of the center of your being. And that really has no attributes. It's not male, it's not female, it's not smart or dumb, it's not, you know, there's nothing about it that's kind of unique. It's it's universal. It's the same thing that everybody has in their inner core. So so I like the I like the Eastern perspective that the core is kind of the void and the the uh the awareness that just kind of arises out of the void. That kind of gives you a perspective of a continual being that doesn't a continual core or identity that doesn't rely on anything external for its for its survival or purpose. It just kind of is the observer of reality. And so I think if you can if you can hold on to the center like that, it's it's beneficial to you.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

I loved how you framed that, and I think it's definitely true that you cannot remain one whole person at all times. I think your attention cannot be whole the entire time. And that's that's part of being human. So I think there's just something so important about that because you know we keep treating the symptom and we're missing the source of the disease. So the mind isn't broken, it's overrun. It's really important to go to the root cause of that, and I think this conversation has helped do so to a lot of our listeners out there. So thank you for that, Jordan. And now let's Yeah, yeah.

Practising Presence In Daily Moments

SPEAKER_01 13:15

So now let's bring this into everyday life. So, Jordan, what does this look like in the small moments, the morning, the meal, the conversation with someone you love? So, where does the loss of attention actually show up in ways people don't connect to technology?

SPEAKER_00 13:36

The loss of attention, yeah. I would say you know, I I have actually been reading some of the the Taoist philosophies and and books, whatever. And one thing that's stuck out to me is the the attention to the here and now and not being stuck in the past or the future, not thinking about things that are not immediately present. And that's kind of a weird there's there's like a middle ground, because the other perspective is well, I am going to live in the future, and so I need to think about the future all the time because I need to optimize it, I need to make it better, I need to improve it before it happens, and that's certainly true, but if you aren't able to enjoy the moment, then there's really no point, you know, to to being a machine that knows how to perfect the future, and so it's you know, the Dao De Ching says something like linear with your family, be fully present, you know. When you're doing something, just focus on what you're doing. And but also don't don't force it, you know. I mean, that'd be kind of weird to like force, force it. Just put down what you're doing. If you know your attention is needed elsewhere, your your kid comes running in and wants to talk to you or something, put down the work and just be present completely in that moment, and then you can pick it up again, right? And so much, I think we kind of have this natural inclination, especially in the West, where we are trying to hold on to everything at the same time. My daughter, she's young, she has this, you know, if she needs to go grab something or do something, you know, and she's making a little craft or something, she will hold on to the thing while she goes and tries to get the glass of water or you know, something else as well. Right. And so training our minds just to say, no, it's okay to drop whatever I'm doing at any time and not be attached to it and just let it go. That's okay. If I have to do a little more work to pick it up later, I can do that. It's not a problem because I'm just gonna enjoy whatever I'm doing, no matter what it is. You know, I'm just gonna and I'm not gonna get anxious about it. And I'm just gonna, you know, let it go, let everything go. And then that frees you up, not to force your attention to where it needs to go, you know, what it needs to be doing right now, but it frees you up to allow that attention to be available for whatever is needed in the moment. And so I don't know if that kind of helps, but that's kind of been my perspective as of like.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

I think that's some great advice, and that's also hard truth to uh, you know, sit with because we're not just losing minutes, we're losing the texture of being alive, and nobody warns us when it's actually happening because it's not always intentional, most of the time it is unintentional, but I think all the advice that you've shared today, they have helped us a lot. Personally, it has helped me a lot, uh, and I'm sure our uh listeners feel the same way.

Where To Find Jordan And Closing

SPEAKER_01 17:38

So, Jordan, before we wrap up for today, I want to make sure people who needed this conversation can find you and the work you do. So, where would you love listeners to connect with you?

SPEAKER_00 17:51

You know, I I started a project called Satori. And so I have a website called SatoriMet.io. And we, you know, it's just a little project, but it has a Discord and has a small community, and so I'm always I'm I'm actually always on that Discord, I'm always available there. So that's probably the just the best way.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

Amazing. Thank you for sharing that. And we'll put all of that in the show notes so anyone who wants to keep this conversation going knows exactly where to find you. So, Jordan, thank you so much for this meaningful and insightful conversation and for all the wisdom that you carried through this entire conversation. And to our listeners, if you stayed with us through this conversation, thank you. Maybe you noticed your phone in your hand while we were talking. Maybe you didn't. Either way, take a moment tonight, just one where you are not consumed, not consuming, just here. That's where your life is, that's where your peace lives. This was Healthy Mind, Healthy Life. I am Archita. Take care of your mind tonight, and I'll see you in the next one.