Quiet Survival Mode Behind Success

SPEAKER_00 0:00

You are still meeting deadlines. You're still saying yes to whatever project or um challenge that comes, you know, across on the table for you. It's still you are the one people can't do. But beneath all of that, something inside you is still whispering. I cannot keep going at the space. I cannot. But you do. Because slowing down feels more dangerous than staying tired. Well, today's conversation is for anyone who knows exactly what I'm describing right now. Welcome to Healthy Mind, Healthy Life. I am Sana, and yes, this is the Space Listeners where we talk about what's really happening underneath the productivity, the polish. And I'm fine, thanks. And my guest today, my guest today, listeners, Katherine Chestnut,

Meet Katherine Chestnut

SPEAKER_00 1:10

uh, a bit about her. She works at the intersection of mindfulness, breath work, and nervous system regulation, helping high-performing individuals understand the difference between actually being okay and just being functional. That distinction is absolutely important, listeners. And we'll uncover how it is. But today we are going to talk about something most of us don't have language for yet. The quiet survival mode that hides behind getting things done. And by the end of this episode, I'm very, very sure you'll have a clearer sense of what's running underneath your stress and something practical that you can try the same day. So, Catherine, welcome to the show. As always, it's an honor having you here. Thank you for having me back. Amazing, amazing. Catherine, this is such, such a relatable, and I'm very sure many of our listeners they can relate to, especially that, um, especially in the workplaces, you know, um, or maybe after a long day, we get asked, you know, how was your day? Yeah, it was good. It was good. But deep down, you feel that tiredness, you feel that sometimes frustration as well. You feel like, you know, how long this will keep going on. But then that fear, it comes up from within you and it says, No, you have to keep going on because when you stop, or if you pause or stop, it's going to get out of control. So I'm really thankful for bringing up this topic, Catherine, for us.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

Yeah, a lot of high-performing, very ambitious professionals. And I was one of those people.

Productivity As Emotional Avoidance

SPEAKER_01 2:55

It's, you know, people say, Oh, you work too much. So saying basically that you have a productivity addiction, I'm known for saying when people asking me what did I do for a living, I would say I get things done. But honestly, that that productivity is sometimes an avoidance strategy that looks really impressive from the outside, but honestly, it's it's a way to manage our emotions.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

In other words, if I stay busy enough, I don't have to feel the uncertainty or the grief or the loneliness or the anger or the disappointment or my exhaustion. Honestly, I was uh, you know, there were many times when I went to work because it was my haven. It was a safe place to go. And I didn't have to, I didn't have to uh, you know, feel some of the uncertainty or disappointment that I was feeling at home.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

I absolutely understand what Catherine and because there there was a stage, you know, there was a phase in my life, you know, where this is exactly what was I doing. Um and I didn't realize that's that's the kind of I should say the dangerous part about it. I'm gonna use that word because a few years later I I really understood what were the implications in there. But at in that phase, I didn't realize that um I was just masking my emotional, um, you know, emotional distress, or um, you can say that uh the fear of the fact that if I pause or if I just, you know, kind of just leave everything and let myself free for a few moments, I'm going to break down. So I I cannot do that. I cannot afford to do that. So you you just kind of shut yourself down and get yourself into that automated mode of doing, doing, doing.

SPEAKER_01 5:27

Yeah. I'm busyness has an illusion of control, right? If we're busy and we're checking things off our list, I mean, honestly, who doesn't like scratching things off on our list because it feels like you've accomplished something, and it gives you that quick hit of relief, like, huh, and your nervous system can quiet down just a moment because you're feeling like I got something done, I can relax a little, but then you're right back at it.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

Hmm, absolutely, absolutely, Katherine.

Calm Strengthens Drive

SPEAKER_00 6:09

And what um brings me to, you know, this uh idea floating around that calm and ambition are opposites, that if you slow down, you will lose your edge. Um, but as you mentioned, that you know, business, you know, there's an illusion in that. Um, what do you think, Catherine? You know, what is the biggest, biggest misconception we have about being calm and being driven?

SPEAKER_01 6:43

So it there is this is a misconception, and I had the same gear. So you and I are in the same room.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

That feeling that if I relax, I will lose my edge and I'm not gonna be as successful as I have been. And what happens is that when we what really happens is that when we build calm and that steadiness, we're not leaking, first off, we're not leaking our energy, right? We're we're anxious and that requires energy. And we have uh internal chaos or constant stress going on. When we're not doing that, it allows us to be a little more, a little sharper, a little more decisive. It gives us the ability to be more creative. It doesn't dull our ambition to be calm, it just refines it. We get to be more discerning, we don't have to prove that we're worth it. We know that we are, and we get to choose accordingly, and that is a whole different level of our own power.

SPEAKER_00 8:16

And and I also believe, Katherine, that this is very much different because now this particular part of the conversation, it can have many, you know, um uh dimensions added onto it. You know, now some would say, okay, so um that means maybe if I'm I'm a high-performing individual and I had always like to be busy in something or somewhere, um, you are asking me to uh pause or maybe sometimes, you know, quote unquote procrastinate, just relax and you know, worry unless that doesn't make sense in today's day and age. It can be like, you know, um it can deflect to something else and it can feel like you know, um, it can feel like sometimes very um demotivating also, you know, because let's say um, and I've I've I've actually uh you know faced this kind of situation where if uh to the to my friend who is probably a very high-performing person, high performing individual, he they they love to you know be busy all the time. They wouldn't, you know, love to sit idle for some time. And it's not about being idle, it's just about you know, maybe doing something else, something creative, or you know, just maybe reading a book or or you know, something creative. Um it wouldn't wouldn't make sense to that person. And they would say, no, I don't, I don't like that. You may prefer that because you do not you know function like that. That's why you prefer, but I don't prefer like that. I I always love to be on the run.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

It's exhausting though.

Why Stillness Can Spike Anxiety

SPEAKER_01 9:58

Yeah, but it I mean, a lot of us don't know how to exist without moving, because stillness feels uncomfortable, because what happens is our emotions that we've been ignoring, and I'm not saying all of them, but some of them, if we're using motion and momentum to avoid those emotions, they they want to be heard and they rise to the surface. So slowing down can initially increase anxiety instead of decreasing it because the nervous system suddenly has space to notice what it's been ignoring.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

Absolutely, and I really appreciate it for um giving the perfect segue, Catherine, because that's exactly what I would love to ask you. So, what's exactly happening in the nervous system when someone is overfunctioning?

Nervous System Urgency And Survival

SPEAKER_01 11:06

When we are constantly moving, our and our brains are meant to be in a constant searching mode. Our brains are constantly searching for any particular threat. So looking for, you know, hundreds of years, hundreds of millions of years ago, or tens of millions of years ago, uh, it was saber-toothed tigers. Our brains were searching for that. Uh, and the same is true now, except maybe it's your boss walking down the hall, or right? It's just a different kind of threat. And so we're keyed up all the time, and so we live in this constant state of I have to survive, and if I move, they can't catch me. Right, and our nervous system gets addicted to that urgency, right? Because it feels very urgent, so to be calm first feels very odd and unfamiliar, even boring, even. You know, if you're saying, oh, I don't like to read because that's boring, I don't like to sit and listen to music because I'm bored, it's because you're used to having that surge of adrenaline all the time.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

Exactly. Exactly. And and you know, there's so many aspects here, Catherine, that you highlighted.

Culture Algorithms And Shrinking Attention

SPEAKER_00 12:49

First of all, you know, that because it instantly brought the cultural aspect here as well. Um, for example, in in in my culture, this always has been this fear of um discipline, it's required. But then it was not just discipline, it was it was like this very rigid discipline or the strictness that oh my goodness, you know, maybe probably my father will catch me maybe playing or doing something else other than studying. So let's just sit and let's just make sure that I study. And he doesn't see me sitting idle or watching TV or something like that. Um, you know, especially the millionaires would be able to connect with that when we actually had only TV. Uh but now you also mentioned about the adrenaline rush, and that really um brings that this aspect right now, the attention span. Uh, that in fact, I I listen to many of the people who are in the creative field, maybe movies or in fact podcast productions, talking about that, you know, how still statistically long form content, or they yeah, they have a very kind of you know niche um set of listeners who would devote their 10-15 minutes or maybe one hour, two hours listening to something, listening to a long-form content. I have seen people, and it's not even in the older generations, but younger generations, they still prefer reading books, the physical, the hard copies, not the audiobook or the Kindle. But in terms of the overall, the Uber level statistics, um, short form or those 10-minute hooks or two-minute hooks that will keep you engaged long enough for that media to be consumed, I think we are seeing a huge, huge change in the way that attention span, the neurological aspect is changing now.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

I I hear you about you know books. And I actually don't read physical books anymore because when I used to travel all the time, I didn't want to have to carry yet another thing. So I read on my I read on my iPad using the Kindle app. But yes, I I a lot of people don't ever want to do that. The whole, and I I'd be interested to know more about that study that you looked at, because I mean, think about when we do Doom scrolling, right? We're getting that quick hit of something to divert our attention. And if it's too long, we're on to the next one. Or if it doesn't hook me in the first five to 10 seconds, I'm moving to the next one. And it's interesting, I was just thinking about that this morning, about how some of my, you know, YouTube videos get more looks than others. And a friend of mine said, Oh, you should do more like this. And I'm like, I I'm just gonna do what I do. I, you know, there's a part of me that's just gonna be rebelling against. I don't, I don't care about the algorithms. I wanna, I wanna deliver the information the way that I want to, which it may sound short-sighted, but um it's just what it is.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

It's just what it is exactly exciting. And and about the books, catch me honestly. I mean, uh it's kind of a lived experience, you know, what I actually saw. Um, maybe I didn't check the researches or studies because I was I was recently uh I went to a book uh fair and it it was all about, you know, um, I think it was a Harry Potter book fair, I believe. Of course, you know, uh once again, um it's the cultural component, but still I saw so many, you know, young people there buying books, you know. I thought, okay, maybe, you know, yeah, uh still there are people who would love to have the physical book. In fact, you know, I also purchase the books, but I haven't read all of them, so yeah, I was quite guilty.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

Yeah, I know I know people who who read physical books as well, but so but back to the whole chaos and momentum and high pressure.

Learning To Succeed Without Stress

SPEAKER_01 17:30

I mean, some of us create pressure at the last minute because we know how many times have you procrastinated to complete something, a report or a paper or something like that. And then you end up staying up half the night to finish it, which you know is not gonna produce your best work, and yet there's that addiction to the stress, to the adrenaline, to the urgency. So, but the answer is not to be less ambitious. And I I would say being ambitious and having your dad catch you not watching TV instead of doing your homework, I would say that's pretty, pretty the same month, the same year. But what we need to do is learn how to succeed without using stress as our fuel. Stress isn't necess we don't need the stress to be successful. And being more balanced doesn't make you less effective. In fact, frequently it makes you more effective because you waste less energy on overthinking and suppressing your emotions and dealing with chaos that may come up.

SPEAKER_00 19:06

I think this is a very, very important, you know, uh statement that you make, Catherine. Absolutely. Because that's that's how we look at, you know, um we have been looking at uh these words calm or relax or pause, you know, because we believe that if we're not stressed, that means you know we are not successful.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

Right. Right. And it's it's it's not true. And if you think about many of us we're operating from unprocessed survival patterns that happen because they produce results and we just keep going, we keep getting rewarded for it. And again, the goal isn't to stop achieving. I I feel like what I do now is just as important as what I did 10 years ago and 20 years ago, but I've stopped needing to be exhausted, and I've stopped needing the pressure to be successful and using those as measures of my success.

The Pause Practice You Can Use

SPEAKER_00 20:33

Absolutely, and Katherine, I know we are short on time. Um, but uh is is there any you know for someone listening right now who recognizes all of this in themselves, is there any uh I I know it can it's different for different people, uh, but still, any one practical thing that you know they can try today, something that doesn't require maybe an hour of free time or a perfect routine or a perfect checklist.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

Well, we're not gonna be perfect and we're not gonna have a perfect checklist. But the most powerful thing that anyone can do to stop living in constant tension and urgency is just to pause. Just pause before you respond to anything. Pause before you send that email. Have you ever done that? Have you ever, you know, you get an email, it irritates you, annoys you, frustrates you, and you pound out a response. And then before you send it, you go, I'm gonna wait on this one for a minute. I'm gonna go do something else because I'm I'm coming from a place of agitation and anger, frustration. So it's the same thing, except do it whenever you can. Just pause, take a deep breath, check in with your body, how does my body feel? And that one simple little pause interrupts urgency. The right, the the tenseness, the bracing that we that we're holding. It interrupts that for just a moment and reminds your body that you're not under attack because it starts in our body.

SPEAKER_00 22:42

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

And it sounds really simple, but it's really magical and powerful.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

It is, it is for sure, Kathry. It is, and and this is uh a work in progress for me. And I'll also share with all the listeners that it's not going to happen overnight, it will take its time, but be there, just uh give some compassion and kindness to yourself, and uh yeah, it may take different time, you know, for for different people, but it's it's surely, surely going to feel magical, as you said, Catherine.

How To Connect And Closing

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Oh, and Katherine, uh, for further exploration, and also if our listeners they would love to connect with you, follow your work, um, how how they can reach out to you.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

Uh well, you can find me on my website, which is catherynchestnut.com, or follow me on YouTube. Uh, all of my meditations and courses are there, as well as on Insight Timer, which is the largest meditate free meditation app that there is.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

Brilliant. So, listeners, you heard it from Catherine. So, what I'll do is, as I do it always, I'll put everything in the show notes so it's easy for all of you to find Catherine and check out her YouTube or Insight Timer. And yes, that's it for today's episode of Healthy Mind, Healthy Life Listeners. If something Catherine said landed for you, sit with it for a moment before you move on to the next thing. That pause, that's already the work beginning. And Catherine, thank you so much for this really, really crucial and such a wonderful conversation. I really loved it. Thank you. Thank you. And yes, uh, take care of yourself and uh not the way you think you should, but the way you actually need to. And this is your host Sona. I'll catch you in the next episode. Thank you so much.