Midlife Grief And A New Start

Dear listeners, your body changes its mind, your energy changes its terms, and you are standing there holding a craft and identity, a way of moving through the world, and it does not fit the same way anymore. Most people grieve that moment in midlife in private. And today's guest decided to actually do something with it. Yeah. So dear dear listeners, welcome back to another powerful episode of Healthy Man, Healthy Life. I'm your host, Aveg, and today, my guest, please welcome Seth Panich. So welcome to the show.

Thank you, Avik. I'm happy to be here.

Amazing, amazing. And uh, so dear listeners, like before we delve deep into the discussion, I'd quickly love to introduce you with Seth. So Seth uh is here to talk about what uh it has been like to refocus from um theater to fiction writing for the sake of its mind and his body just after turning fake. So um I don't know. Really welcome Seth. And uh

Mornings After Theater Stress

before we go in, uh if you can just uh tell us like um what does a morning look like for you uh now compared to how it looked five years ago?

Hmm, interesting question. So how how does how does a morning look to me? Um well I'm sleeping better, so uh the morning looks a little clearer to me, I will say, uh as opposed to five years ago. Um I think the five years ago is let's see, is pretty much right about the time that I started thinking about writing fiction. Um and so um my mind was usually on a lot of theater projects, you know, when I'd wake up, um would kind of um you know build my anxiety through the day, um, just because there's such a time limit on theater, right? You start rehearsing and you know that you're gonna open in two months. And but but now um, you know, when I wake up, I'm thinking about the world that I'm gonna be riding in. And uh uh I I think it's a it's a it's a calmer place for me to be in. Um, in some ways, it's a more exciting place to be in. Um, and uh it takes me a while to wake up. Uh I'm not a morning flower of aek. Uh so um uh I'm usually running in the morning um or preparing to teach on the days that I teach at the university. Um but uh yeah, the mornings look uh, you know, to be perfectly honest, a little bit brighter to me than they did five years ago.

Yeah, I mean I I I really understand. I mean, this this is really, really something which we all uh love, love it because the first hour, the first cup of something, the first thing your brain reaches for, and all all all

Health Driven Reinvention After 50

right. So yeah, and like like when people hear the phrase um reinvention after 50, and they often uh they often picture someone who I'd say just got bored and decided to chase it a kind of fashion like it was a soft choice, but the kind of uh pivot that you made uh was not that. So it came with the body telling you something that uh I mean with a mind asking for different feel. So uh what do you think people get wrong about midlife reinvention when the trigger is kind of uh uh health and not a kind of boredom?

That's that's uh a beautiful way of putting things. And and you know, I I I pause before I say what people get wrong, because obviously, Avik, all of us, all of us approach middle age in a different way. You know, we we all have different things that we want to accomplish and and and different things that that please us. Uh uh, you know, uh I think the the one thing that we probably get wrong is becoming too inertial. Um, and maybe that's you know, that's why people get bored because they're just stuck in one rut over and over and they don't realize there's a myriad of things they can do with their lives, no matter what they're working on in their nine to five jobs. Um, because obviously I don't I don't make enough through my fiction writing to quit the university. I wish I could, but that's not the reality. Um uh for me, it wasn't boredom, like you say. Uh for me, it uh I could sense that the high intensity of six nights a week being in rehearsal and teaching during the day, and in between writing plays, because I do plays in New York, um, and and uh uh prepping to act at Shakespeare Festivals, which I've done, that there was so much in the day, Avik, that that I didn't have time to hear what I really wanted to do because it was so chock full of what I thought I had to do. And I actually have a really dear friend, had had one at the university, and he's he's since retired. His name's Cornelius Carter, head of the dance program here. And he told me that I was gonna have to find some sort of quiet place where I could hear the next thing. And he actually said that to me probably three or four years before I heard fiction writing calling to me. It took me a while to just process what he had said. Um, uh, and it I guess it was just a small voice in the back of my head, and it just got louder and louder and louder as I was thinking also, Avik, about what's going to be next for me, because I'm not gonna teach forever. You know, there comes a time where, and I love teaching. I don't love academia, to be honest. Um, I I don't I don't love the university system, but I love the students and I love being in the classroom. But even that doesn't last forever. At some point, you know, they're gonna need someone younger and, you know, at the head of their class. Uh, so thinking about what's going to be next in my life and preparing for it before it came to me, I think, is something that maybe people get wrong, right? They don't, they don't prepare for what that next step is going to be, and they don't get themselves into the act of preparing for it. So when it hits, they don't do it. Um, and so that that's sort of what happened to me in my process as I as I thought about what the next step was going to be. I had always wanted to write when I was a kid, uh, but had never done it because all these doors opened for me as an actor and a playwright. Um, and so for me, it was it was looking back on my life and saying, you know, is there something I really want to do that I never did? And the answer, of course, was writing a book. Um, and then you just have to, man, it's like Nike, the commercials. You just have to do it. And and that's hopefully what I've done.

Exactly.

Hearing The Next Thing In Quiet

And um, I also uh want to ask you, like, when you when you try to explain it to people uh um in your old world, um, what did they hear that you did not actually see?

Well, conversely, most of the people I spoke to about this thought I was insane. So um, you know, they all said, You're you know, you're making films, you're doing this, you know, why why on earth would you want to do that? Um I think the one person that understood, I my wife always understands, and and I think that that she saw me as an author before I did, which is a really beautiful thing. Like I wrote the book. Even I think even after I wrote it, I still couldn't call myself a novelist. So she actually, for my birthday, made a sign and put it outside my office door and it says Seth Panich, novelist, just to remind me that I'm a so she she saw that before I did. I think my mother also has always been a huge um, she's always wanted me to write, uh, and she has liked my plays a lot, but I think she always wanted me to write long form and knew that I had that in me. Going all the way back, the last person I'll say is in college. Um, the first real support of my writing, like professional, that I felt was professional, was my college professor, John Bouchard, who's actually a dear friend of mine now. He was my acting teacher. Um, but I wrote a play called Waltz of the Iron Maidens about the Grand Inquisitor Torque Mada during the Spanish Inquisition. Um and it was a very dark comic piece. But he gave me the performance of the year award for the department for the writing of the play. So for me as an actor to know that writing could be a performance, could be something considered on that level, was something that I didn't see. And, you know, obviously that put me into playwriting, but uh but I think the seeds of that are were certainly something that awoke in me as I began writing.

So um and obviously that uh and this isn't something uh I think a lot of people uh in their forties and fifties carry quietly. Um obviously the world rewards the highlight uh kind of uh real version of the word, right? And uh almost never ask about the body underneath it. So uh yeah, I mean the way you uh uh you uh explain that gap I mean reframes something for

When Theater Starts Feeling Like Work

me. So uh definitely and uh I want to go um underneath the surface of that decision, like for from the outside, this looks like kind of very clean story, uh theatrical fiction. But I suspect that there was um really happening. I mean, what was really happening uh in you was much messier and much older than the moment that you actually made the switch. So uh uh what was uh building underneath? I mean, in the years before you actually moved.

Yeah, I yeah, so yeah, that I I think you're right. You know, it it's like birth, right? I mean, a birth, everyone thinks, oh, the baby comes out and it's clean, but it's messy, uh, and it it sort of claws its way out, and there's pain involved with all of that. And and certainly I I I've been having that as well. I think what's what happened in theater for me, um, and again, this is not I I still love theater and it is what I teach and and and I adore the art form, but I had been doing it, I've for I mean, my first professional job was when I think I was 21. It was a summer uh theater. Um, but that was my first professional job. So for about 31 years, I had been doing that. And it began to feel like a job, which, you know, sounds like a pathetic thing to say, but but for me, theater, no matter how hard I worked, it never felt like I was working. And it started to feel like I was working. It started to feel less about the passion and more about delivering a product. And that's fine if that's what you want to do with your life, but that's not what I want to do with my life. The process has always interested me more so than the product. And I think that's what was going on. Um, I was more tired during rehearsals at night, and I I know that's my body breaking down, but it was also my mind saying, you know, we've done this. And I think that there's an there's a there's a little bit of an exhaustion that comes from that. I don't think that my work as a director suffered, but I think that the pleasure that I derived from it lessened the last few shows that I did. And I started to feel in my mind the end of that major push to direct as much as I could, to get as many plays as I could done in New York. Um, I think it also helped that in 2023 I filmed what might be my last film, and that was very exhausting for me. I was playing the lead in it, and it was a very demanding process. Um, and I was playing a character that was a very dark character. And I think that brought a lot of dark things out of me. And it it during the shoot of it, Avik, I was separate from other people because I'm a method actor. So I really like to feel that when I'm on set. And that helped me separate from what I was doing to start that push away from it. Um, the last thing that happened, and this is very much body health, which you brought

Blood Pressure Wake Up Call

up for me that was messy, is that I was pushing myself so hard. And my, I think my body, I wasn't cognizant of the fact that I had cracked 50. My body was cognizant of it, but my mind wasn't. So I was pushing myself the same sorts of hours without any sort of break that I used to. So I had this sort of heart issue where my blood pressure shot up and I couldn't get it down. Uh, I couldn't get it down for days, weeks, and it affected my mind as well. Then the body came back and affected my mind. And at the time I was really nervous. I thought, I thought I was gonna have a heart attack, and I didn't, but I really stressed myself to such an extreme. And it, it, it, it, it put me out for about two months. Uh, and I'd never gone through something like that in my entire life. I had never felt at the um at the whim of of my body like that ever. Uh and so um I thought, you know, I I even uh contemplated, is this it? I mean, am I am I gonna go into the hospital and not come out? You know, you know what goes through your mind when you're really, really upset. And um when I came out the other side, I was very thankful for that because it made me face the fact that I'm gonna have to run less. I'm a very avid runner. I was pushing myself way too hard uh to hit times that I hadn't hit since I was in college. You can't do that when you're after 50, or at least I can't. I was I was rehearsing too much at night. And so I backed out of directing at the university and and backed out of directing at festivals, and I'm not doing as many shows at, if at all, in New York. And I and as I look back on that, I don't look back at it as a slowing down. I look back at it as an acknowledgement of of what I can do now, which is which is right. And and when I get anxious, you know, to take a break from from the writing, I also think that my teaching has improved because I'm not trying to accomplish certain things in each class. I just try to teach the students to the best of my and their ability. And I actually don't worry about the structure of the class. Um, I have things that I want to accomplish. It's the same thing about writing every day. You know, I used to feel that I had to do 10 pages a day or I had failed. I write what I write, and and in the end, it's actually better.

I mean, it's uh and there's a lot of things to learn from my episode because um yes, I mean that stays with you. There's a particular grief in realizing that the body had been uh telling the truth long before the mind was willing to transfer it. So yeah, and I think a lot of listeners are going to feel that one without having votes for it. So um definitely true.

I think also the the important thing is when you feel the body breaking down, um it's not, it's not and this is tough to say, right? Because at the time I didn't feel this way, but it's not a limitation, it's a refocusing. If you hit, if you're trying to run in a certain direction and someone puts a giant barrier in your way, or a slow runner in a marathon, right? You don't just stop, you go around that, right? Um, uh to a new path. You know, if if you're driving in a car and the and the and the the street is closed, you don't say, well, I'm not going to dinner. You know, you find another route to where you want to go. Because where where you want to go is passion and art and creativity and happiness, uh, whatever that is in your life. And that doesn't have to be where you thought thought it was. It can be, you can get to the same place in a different location, if that makes sense. And I think yeah, and I think that's that's what the body's telling you. You can go to the same place, you don't have to quote, slow down, you can speed up in other areas in your life. Um, and and I think that's what we forget when when we start to age.

Exactly, yeah.

Practical Habits For The Transition

So if you think of a kind of practical way, um people in their 40s, 50s, uh uh listening to this who are sensing their own pivot coming, they're going to want something that they can actually do. So um what was the practice, the habit, or maybe the small thing that you put in place that actually made the transition uh kind of livable? Like uh and the real one that you uh do.

Yeah, I for me, what made the transition workable for me to to feel like I was accomplishing something uh was to go back to being a student. And what I mean by that is, you know, uh novel writing for me was going to be brand new. I mean, I had written short stories in college, my lord, but that's like a literally another century, right? Um, so so what I did was I bought I bought a bunch of books, like, and and I didn't want to read it on a screen. I bought hard copies of books. Uh that to me felt like it was real, you know. I could see it in my office, I could see the stack of books, and I started reading through them, and I compiled bit by bit how I wanted to write by pulling different pieces, you know, like making a Frankenstein monster, like pieces of all of these books. And as I read them, I saw them stack up. It went from the right side to the left side. And so I could see the accomplishment. So even though I wasn't writing yet, I saw that I was moving forward, that I was beginning that transition. The toughest part about that transitional time that I'll tell the readers, uh the listeners, is that as you transition to this new thing, you're going to be, it's like a tug of war. You're going to be pulled back to what you've been doing for decades. The people that you've worked with are going to, I mean, I got calls to go work at theaters. Um, actors that I've worked with asked that I love to work with, ask, well, what's the next project? And so you're going to feel that pull. Having to develop the word no is another part of that process because you're going to have been successful in something in your life. And you're going to have to say no to that success. So you can leave yourself open to either fail or succeed in this new venture. And that is a very difficult part of that transition because you're really letting go of something that's guaranteed that people that you know people are going to respect about you, towards something where you don't have that. So, so there is a loss of confidence in that transition. And that's why for me, buying those books, reading those books, and compiling them into my attack plan really helped me build the confidence that I could take this next step.

Exactly. Yeah.

Doubt Jealousy And Mindfulness

Because nobody reinvents their life cleanly. There must have been weeks, months, even uh where the doubt came in heart. Um where you where you kind of wondered like if you had been uh given up too much or kind of made a mistake. So how do you handle those uh seasons of that?

I mean, yeah, that's that's not easy. And I and I'm I'm still in transition, right? I mean, it's it, you know, I just uh I started learning how to write at 52, but I didn't write this, my first novel antique, um till three years ago. So, so um, you know, 54, you know, is is when is when I started writing it. So it this is still very fresh for me. Um, it's very difficult when I go to a play. It's still tough because I see actors that that um I respect or I'd love to work with. And I say, wow, I could do this with that actor. Or I, you know, I see a set and I think, oh, I would use that differently as a director, not better, just differently. Um, you know, I speak to my friends that are doing Shakespeare and I love to act in Shakespeare. I love that so much. And I think, oh, you know, maybe maybe if I just dabble in that a little bit, but I I have to remind myself that if I do that, it means if, you know, if I do that for a summer, that's three months. And for me, that's 300 pages that I haven't read. Written. And so that, you know, that's where it gets messy for me. And so your question was, how did I deal with that? I had to, I had to ask myself and look deeply into it. And fortunately, when I went through my blood pressure issue, I got heavily into Zen meditation and mindfulness and TikNothan specifically. And that helped me quite a bit because what I did was I acknowledged that I was having jealousies, right? Or feeling left out of theater. And then I looked, I was able to look into that in ways that I didn't used to be able to do so. I would just, I would knee-jerk and go out and do another project because I felt jealous that I wasn't working and somebody else was, right? Um, and so being able to look into that jealousy and say, okay, what are you jealous about? Well, I'd love to do that project. Well, great. Well, if you did that project, what wouldn't you do? Well, I wouldn't write 300 pages, which is three-quarters of a first draft of a new novel. Well, Seth, what would you rather do? And it, and, and to talk myself through that process is something that I used to not do. Uh, I still have to do it daily, you know, because I'm on Facebook and my friends will say, Hey, can you come see me in the show? And I can feel that little twinge, right? That that little knee-jerk. And I always, and it, and I don't think we are ever going to not feel that if we did something for decades. So I, you know, if I'm and anybody who's listening, you're not going to be able to turn that voice off. What you have to do is talk to that voice and talk it out. And and and there, for some people, the answer is, I need to go back. And that's that's great if that's an honest answer and you really want to go back. If you started this transition and what you learn is, no, I really didn't appreciate what I had. I think that's a great reason to go back. Um, and maybe that freshness, that fresh approach from being away from it a little bit will help you. For me, I know that it's not about going back, it's about going forward. So I just have to talk, talk that, talk to that voice, you know, let it have its say, um, and and reason with it. Um, and eventually, you know, if you know, if you're reasoning from the heart, I think that voice will listen. It'll never be completely quiet. You know, it's a petulant child, but it'll quiet down for you a little bit.

Very well said, yes, definitely.

How To Connect And Final Takeaway

I really love. And if listeners want to connect with you, what will be the great medium to connect about?

Um, well, I love to hear from listeners and and and and certainly if anybody decides to read my book, Antique, I love to hear how, because she goes through a huge transition in that book, just as I was when I wrote it, how their transition was reminded, right? How they were reminded of it through the book. The best way to connect with me, I'd say email me directly if they want it at SethPanich at gmail.com. But I am on Instagram at SethPanich Author. Um, and that's a terrific way to get in touch with me um and see where I am and what I'm doing. Um, and I'm also on TikTok at uh Seth.panich. Um, so but I'm always happy to hear from people that are going through transitions and and because I'm a born teacher, um, I I'm I'm I like to help.

Amazing. That's I'd say uh really, really great one. And um, dear listeners, what I'll do is I'll put all the links, details, everything in the show notes for your easy reference. And um I have to say that if um, you know, like um uh I mean there was a moment in this conversation where uh you described the body knowing before the mind, uh translated. And I want listeners to hold that and thank you, Seth, for all of that. And uh for everyone who is listening, or maybe you'll be listening later as well. Sometimes the reinvention is not a kind of betrayal of who you were, it is a deeper um loyalty to who you still are becoming. So, um so with this hope. This is your host away, and this is Healthy Mind Healthy Life. We'll see you on the next episode on Healthy Mind Healthy Life. Till then, be happy and keep smiling. Thank you so much.

Thank you.