The Lonely Room Of Creating

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Dear listeners, there is a strange kind of loneliness that comes with making things like you sit in a room day after day, building a whole world out of nothing but your own hair, and nobody is there to tell you if it is working or not. And then once it's out on out in the world, someone someone you have never met decides they have opinions about it. And today we are sitting with that gap on it. Welcome to Helldy Man Healthy Life, dear listeners. I'm your host, Lovic, and every episode we try to take something that sounds like a creative or a work problem, and I am the very human, very ordinary feeling underneath it. So today we are talking about criticism, solitude, and how to stay whole while you make things people uh will judge. And Elisa like joining me today is a writer who spent his career moving between rooms full of people, and a room with just himself and a blank page. Yeah. And a former style comedian, a major market rock radio host, and a CNN television producer, who's now written 20 books as a fantasy, sci-fi and humor. Please welcome my guest, Pick White Roll. Welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Thank you for having me, Uvic, and uh and it's a beautiful morning here in Christchurch, New Zealand. I I wish I wish I could bring you here. I wish I could bring everybody here. It's it's lovely. I know a lot of the listening world right now, it's uh they're enjoying summer or they're melting. I understand America has just had like one of the hardest, hottest Julys on record. So some people are melting. Uh UK had had a pretty intense uh summer, and over here uh we're we're quite chilly still. So we're looking forward to some uh some surface of the sun conditions anytime soon.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Amazing, amazing. Lovely. I definitely love to visit once for sure. Definitely.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

We've got room. We've been waiting for you. Everybody's asking when's Ava coming? I'm saying, I I don't know. He keeps saying, We've got a spare room here, brother. Come on down. You know, we're gonna pull the dog, we're gonna move the dog out of it. We got the talk in there. Oh, I promise we'll clean everything up, we'll get it all scrubbed down, it'll be fine. You won't even you won't even notice most of the smell.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

That's amazing. That's really amazing. So amazing. Wow. So like, I mean, stay with us because you will definitely love our discussion today.

What People Get Wrong About Writing

SPEAKER_01 3:18

So uh so like I mean something I keep coming back to with um writers in this um idea that everyone imagines the job as glamorous book covers, reading, the uh the the kind of thing. But but almost nobody talks about the actual hours, hours behind it. So you have said like you spend a lot of time alone in a room by yourself for a living. What is the part of that solitude that people get wrong when they imagine it from the outside part of it? So what is it?

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Yeah, I think that there is some element that people think that it's just you know, you sit there with like a stem with a cigarette on the end, and you just you just typing away as just the words and everything come to you. But really, yeah, there's a lot of stering up in a space, there's a lot of editing, there's a lot of self-doubt, uh, which played into the process, but there's a lot, a lot of work. Anytime you see that's why a lot of times when you see writers speak, we're weird people. I mean, if you've ever if you ever see we're not really social because most of the day we spend by our, as you said, by ourselves in this room, but we're not wholly by ourselves because if you're if you get kind of good at this, you actually do begin to not literally hear, because that's a psychosis, but you do hear the voices of these characters. And so they become kind of your imaginary friends. So I sit in this room with a couple dozen imaginary friends, good people and bad people, uh, you know, murderers and good guys, and this sort of thing. Um, and so I that's how I spend my day with sort of these voices sort of competing for a bit of attention. I get these onto a page. So um it's kind it's kind of just harnessing that chaos um that's that's coming at you, but not too much. You know, you you don't want to tamp it down, you gotta tamp it down enough to keep a bit of a storyline and get stuff onto the page. But a lot of that chaos and that sort of free flow that's coming into you, that's where a lot of that amazing creativity comes from. And much of that comes from quieting your mind and being alone. We've lost a lot of that, obviously, and people talk about this all the time in this day and age. If you sit down, and let's say you're gonna get on the bus or you're the doctor's office, what do you do within 10 seconds? Bam, your phone comes out. There, you know, right away we're doing something so we don't have to be alone with our thoughts. And so, so writers, uh, that's what we do. We we do that, we do that being alone with our thoughts. And basically, um, you can almost call boredom, right? Because we're not using things that are going to influence our mind to take us uh onto something else. Or this is this TikTok video of somebody hating on somebody else. We have to sit and just get become very internal and pay attention to what's happening on the inside so we can bring all that stuff on the outside. And so yeah, it can be it can be quite solitary for sure. Um, but but if you can work through that, and some of that, and and admitly, some of it is a bit a little bit of madness in there. There, but almost by definition, there's some madness in there because I do have people in my head now. Uh, but if you can kind of work through that and you find a way to navigate that, on occasion you can put out some pretty nice stories. People seem to like them.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

Exactly, exactly true. So definitely, and thank you so much for sharing that so honestly. I mean, it is really uh I mean this happens like I mean, everyone thinks about that. Oh, writer that might I might be uh his or her life will be like this and all. I mean uh the question is when it stops feeling like freedom and uh starts feeling like just quite so then what does that shift feel

Deadlines Turn Freedom Into Grind

SPEAKER_01 7:16

like for you?

SPEAKER_00 7:16

So that's that's the that's a grind, right? Because it's always gonna be like there's gonna be moments where things really flow, but if you've got a deadline, and I do have deadlines, even as an independent author, maybe especially because I'm an independent author, I have deadlines that I have to hit. I tell uh the various services that I'm gonna deliver the book by this particular day. If I don't get it to them by that particular day, then I lose privileges on Amazon or Ingram Spark or any of these places. So I've got to hit those. And so, yeah, so it's not just like, oh, I feel like writing today. It's like this is my job. I've got to do it every single day. So creating a construct where you still have to put in your eight, 10 hours a day and be creative. That is the heck, that is a heck of a balance. One advantage that I have is that I spent, as you mentioned, I spent about 12 years in radio. So I um spent a good number of years sitting in a s in a small room as a radio personality where I couldn't see anybody, and I had to talk like this. And I had to speak to some, you know, I had to speak to people I'll never meet, faces I'll never see, and I have to find some way to sort of relate to them. And the cool part, and that's why radio, I feel in a lot of ways, is an amazing training uh for writing, is because radio is one-on-one. Television or movies is like, let's put on this show, you know, and radio is just me speaking directly to you. Podcasts are very similar. Uh, the person listening to the podcast right now, they're not all sitting like the family isn't sitting around the computer drinking cocoa, listening to us at the moment. It's one person who's doing the laundry or going for a jog or driving in the car. It's one person, one-on-one conversation. And that's what that's what writing is too. It's like because for the most part, the person who's reading that story is by themselves. Uh, they're reading that. And so you have to find that way to be able to create something, entertain somebody, engage somebody, create this world for somebody one-on-one. And so, yeah, so I guess my advantage to some extent was I made a career of radio and it trained me for sitting in a small room by myself and making stuff up.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

Definitely. That is that is the best. I had to say that is really the best. And um okay. So yeah, definitely like that is something in what you just said that uh I definitely wanted to hold for a second. That the same silence that lets you create is the exact same silence that can start to wear on you. I mean yeah, I mean, I don't think um people realize those are the same room. And I think that's a piece, that's a piece most conversation about the writer's life is imposter in daddy. And also like if you just uh think of like uh there's a e-book pattern here, like when you are that alone with your own work for uh that long and something happens to how you hear a kind of feedback, uh good or bad. So what do you think is actually going on for you? Like what or I mean when a piece

Building Thick Skin For Criticism

SPEAKER_01 10:37

of criticism lands harder than it probably should.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Um, I I have a bit of an advantage there, but I will back up a little bit and say, like as you're talking about, and I don't know how much like what I do for a living, I'm sure there's plenty of people that have similar sort of environments, but what I have to force myself to do is I have to make sure that you know I I try to meet people online. If there's a writer's, because I'm in New Zealand, so going to a writer's conference in Seattle or London, I mean, that's a that that's a that's a flight. You know, that that's that's a day. That that's uh that's a that is a life commitment at that point. So it's not like somebody hopping on a plane going somewhere for four hours or three hours. For me, it's it's an event. And so sometimes I'll do like online conferences. I do a couple of those a year, and I do my best to kind of catch up with. And I did it just this past week. Um, there is another writing, Amy Starling that I spoke with. She's out of the UK, and I'll just catch up with her or some other ones. And so every now and then checking in with them. And part of that is about let's trade some ideas, what's happening with marketing, what's happening with various tools. But the other part is just like, here's somebody who can relate to the lifestyle that I lead. And we just chat away. We chatted for like two hours, two and a half, just two and a half hours talking, talking on Zoom. And so you do need those elements um to help sort of fill your cup for bet uh for lack of a better expression. But when you talk about some of the criticisms, um, and you will get those as as a creative person. And so some one of my advantages, advantages is because I did stand-up comedy and I did radio. And so I sort of trained myself out of, in some, in many ways, trained myself out of actually letting that criticism sink in. And I did something nuts, and I'll admit it's nuts. Uh, when I was in high school, many years ago now, when I was in high school, I was a real shy kid. And I was really tuned into what people thought of me. If, you know, I wanted people to like me, right? I'm also Canadian by birth, and so we all, you know, we naturally, you know, we want to make sure everybody's happy. Are you okay? Anything fine? Anything I get free? Can I use some tea, coffee? And so, so that's part of my personality. Um, and I grew up in the United States. But so there was a moment where I decided that I can't be too worried about what other people think of. I really was cognizant of this when I was about 16 or 17. I can't be too worried about what people think of me. I don't recommend this uh for anybody, but I did this and it's nuts, and I admit it. I decided I picked one class, it was my French class. I decided I was gonna make the people in that class dislike me. Which is a weird, but that's weird. That's a weird idea. But so in that class, I would just talk all the time. I would just shoot my mouth off about stuff, and I would make comments purposely that weren't funny. So it just annoyed people. And it was weird, but I kind of got into it a little bit. Nobody in class liked me at all in just that class. And so every now and then I wonder if somebody's like, Oh, do you have Richard in that class? You have Dick of the class. It's like, oh, what that guy's just uh, you know, always talking about stuff. And other classes must be go, What are you talking about? He's not like that at all. But in that class, I was, and so I think in some weird way I kind of built up a bit of a thick skin. And so then stand up comedy, you have to get used to that. And of course, in radio, I had death threats in radio. It's just nature of the beast. And so, and with that, you build up a bit of skin. Uh, but I find that even with when even today, you know, some of the criticism on occasion can kind of poke at you a bit. Uh, like I said, I'm a bit lucky because a lot of that stuff bounces off. But what I do is I do my best to actually use some of that criticism as fuel, those, those people, those negative comments, right? Because you will have, if it's a creative endeavor, it's a business endeavor, if you're starting your own business, whatever, whatever it is. You have frenemies or whatever, you have people in your life that maybe they're vocal about it and maybe they're not. But let's be honest, they don't want you to succeed. And that's not about you, that's about them. It's because if you succeed, it kind of points to the fact that maybe they're not doing as well. Or if you succeed and do really well, that sort of highlights their failures or whatever it might be. And so, but you will feel those barbs, and so you will get that. So some people like if you're in television like I was for 20 years, they'll just tell you. They're dishonest about you know how much they think you suck. Um, but so what I did was I took those sort of those negative sort of vibes from people or even comments from people, and I use that as fuel. When I was starting to transition to do some of the writing, what I would do is I would think like um, I'll make up a name. I will totally make me uh Tommy. Okay, so let's say Tommy. It says I'm like, you know, listen, I can't, uh I'm I just don't like the writing you do. That's not something that's gonna work, whatever it might be. I if when I was when I'd be lying in bed thinking, listen, I gotta get a couple hours of writing done before I do my job, which I did, I did television about 12 hours a day. It was long shifts. I would lie in bed and think, oh, I just gotta get up and I gotta write for a couple hours, get this book done before we go to work. And if I was really tired, I would think, boy, you know what? Tommy would be really happy if I didn't get up and do that. Tommy would love the idea of me lying in bed and not chasing after my dream. And so I used those negative comments and thought, I don't want to make Tommy happy, because he would love to know that I I skipped it today. And I was able to use a lot of that as fuel to get my butt out of bed and sit down and do that writing that I needed to do to get that first book done in in my my Kane series. And so, and I don't know if that would work for anybody everybody, but in part it helps knowing that most, I believe this, most negative comments coming from other people, it's really about them and not about you. It really is. That helps because it kind of puts a bit of distance between it. But then when those barbs do come in, I just sort of collect all those barbs and turn them, you know, then I light them on fire. And I use that as fuel. And so if you can do that, I think it can help you propel through it because that will never go away. I've I just put out, I've got a new book coming out here. I'm not sure when we're gonna be um posting this podcast, but the Fast Light Con comes up here on August 20th. And I know that, especially because I'm moving into sci-fi, I've been in fantasy for a while, when you get into science fiction, you're definitely gonna get people that are gonna take shots at you. It's just part of it, because they're gonna go like, uh, that's not exactly how that particular design is supposed to be working. You're going to get people like that. 100%. And so I've just got to prepare myself for that. And then if but if the thing is, if they've got if they've got a point, if something uh in the science fiction world is not sort of like gelling and I'm getting it, if I'm truly getting it wrong, then that's that's something I have to just be subjective about. And I guess step back and go, you know, they might have a point. I might not tell them. I might be I still might be a little bit petty about it and grind my teeth. But if they've got a point, then maybe I need to make a fix. But yeah, as best you can, you gotta let your you gotta let some of the comments roll off. I know it's uh oh, it's easy for you to say, but I get hit all the time. I had people when I was on radio write articles about how much they hated me. And so so that that if you can get through that, you can get through somebody saying that they don't love your don't love your book so much. Right. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

Amazing. And and I I also would love to ask you about our daily park, like uh the everyday version of this, right? Because I think a lot of people listening to are not the writers. They uh um but but they know like this feeling, right? Um can you can you uh can you paint me a picture of like what hard weak the critic or even the uh just your own inner critic actually looks like day-to-day?

Using Negative Comments As Fuel

SPEAKER_00 18:37

Excuse me. I think my my day-to-day critic is somebody who keeps me in check. Um I've been writing since I was seven, so like a long time. You know, if the first book I wrote when I was 17 years old, and you know what? It was it was awful. It was it was terrible. Um, but I think my own inner critic is is someone who, at least if nothing else, I've trained that inner critic to at least be on my side. So he can be a bit crabby and can be pretty sharp-tongued. Um, but that critic um helps push me forward a bit, you know? Um, because we do still need to have that. Um there is uh there's something I used to talk about when I used to uh coach radio. Um you had to have your five guy, and your five guy is is that five percent of your brain that's just listening. Because when you're sitting in a room as a broadcaster doing radio, or if you're podcasting solo, or if you're writing, you need to have some small portion of your brain, and I I say five percent of your brain that's just watching. That's sitting there just listening to what you're doing if you're on the radio or podcasting, or somebody who's who's a reader, 5% of your brain who's the reader, that's your five guy. Just kind of sitting there, just kind of listening to what you're doing, just sitting there sipping a beer, whatever it might be. And so that part of your brain is sort of observing what you're doing. And if you can kind of get that feeling from somebody, and it's a real sort of thing. It's a it's a it's re you can you can tell the broadcaster you can do it well because they make amazing transitions. They're always sort of resetting the scene, like, hey, we're talking to Dick Wyber right now. He's an author and he's telling some about this, this sort of thing, because they're really cognizant of the of the um of the listener at home or the reader, whatever it might be. And so I have that with my writing. And that is a critic because he if he gets bored so it's tapping the foot, I know I'm gonna move on to something else. Because writing has a rhythm in itself, even though it's written on a page, there's definitely a music to it. And I've got to make sure I'm still pleased in the five guy who's sitting there reading it as I'm writing it. And so, uh, so I've trained a critic to help me as much as I can. I've whipped him into shape. I've put uh put uh a bridle and reins on the guy. Uh so my critic works for me. But that's to say, that doesn't mean that I don't get days where I can feel a bit down about the stuff I'm doing, or if uh if there is a negative comment out there. Uh, but um I I try to reserve any of the of the criticism that's gonna matter to me, I reserve that to a very small group, like my wife, for example. You know, she if if if she has an opinion about something I've done, that's really gonna affect me. Where if somebody from Peoria says this, this, and this, for the most part, it's just not. It's just not. You can say anything you want. It's not gonna bother me. I don't know who you are. You don't know who I am. So really it's just you shoot your mouth off. So I don't care. But but the the inner critic for the most part, for the most part, it's on my side. Uh, and so I do whatever I can. But you know, it's funny. I had a day even just yesterday, Evic, I was talking to my wife about this, that I was feeling a little bit low. And I thought, what did I do today, or what didn't I do today, that that contributed to that? And honestly, and I'm I'm not making this up simply because we're just talking about health. I hadn't gone to the gym that morning. Uh, And even when I was doing those early mornings, I was talking about when I was working full time in television, working twelve hour days, I would write two or three hours before work. Even on those days, I knew my brain well enough to think I've got to go to the gym for half an hour, 45 minutes to get my head right. It does. I don't like it. I don't like going to the gym. I don't enjoy it. But I know that if I skip going to the gym in the morning, that it kind of bog bobbles up my day. And so those mornings where I had to write. And I was writing, this is back to uh back in 2023, when I just as I was going full time later that particular year. But when I was working full time uh as a television producer and I was writing, and so that day started about 7:30, which meant that I had to write for two or three hours to finish a book. I had to rate for two or three hours before that, which means I had to start writing by 5 a.m. And if I was gonna write about 5 a.m., I'd get up, I would go to the gym at about four o'clock, four fifteen. That's insane. That's nuts. But I knew that I needed to do that to get my head into the right place. And so I would. I'd get up and go to the gym at four o'clock in the morning, go work out and do my thing for 45 minutes and come home, then write. And if I didn't do that, just the world just didn't feel right. And I don't know what it is. I don't know if it's endorphins, I don't know if it's uh delusion, what it might be. But I do know that I do feel better. If nothing else, maybe it's like ticking that box. Say, listen, I if nothing else, I went and worked out today. And so I've got something done. I've completed that task, something that's good for me. But I know that, and so this morning before speaking to you, uh we, you know, we we ended up doing this call very early before before the sun came up. I was up out the door. I was up the out out the door at 5 a.m. I hit the gym because I want to make sure that I was in a good mood talk to you today.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

That's really amazing, yeah, yeah. And and then yeah, I can I can definitely feel that you are in the daily good mood. And um I mean, like uh talking about the gym part you mentioned, I it's I mean, it is a kind of habit. Like uh I mean if you miss one day, then I mean what will happen like one one day today, then again some other day will also be like, okay, fine. Well, I'll go next day. So that next day, next day, next day will pile up and that habit will go. So I mean, yeah, it's it's it's a habit.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

Yeah, yeah, and you can make a habit of breaking the habit, you know, like you say, you know, if if I miss for one day, then I go again. I got the habit, the habit's fine. But I can get I can I can make a habit out of getting out of the habit. I go for two days where I don't go, and three days I don't go, so I'm not doing

Training Your Inner Critic To Help

SPEAKER_00 24:39

that anymore. So you gotta keep it up. And so it's good because I'm coming up on 60 here in a couple of years, brother. And so it's good for me to keep to keep healthy because I see a lot of my contemporaries and I look at them and go like, what are you doing? And I don't even mean judging for weight or anything, but it's like just get out and walk or something. It does it if and nothing else, it does really help your head. It helps me. When I'm trying to come up with plot lines and I get a bit stuck in this tiny of a room, I go take the dog for a walk. And he's chaos, man. He's just like dragging me all over, all over the neighborhood. And so some fighting trying to keep him under control the whole time. But getting out there and walking around, get the oxygen in my lungs and get my um and get my limbs moving, that helps me, uh, that helps me create. And I go back in my room for another couple hours. Yeah. That's part of it.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

Okay. So um like if I talk about the hardest part, like uh unglamorous part that nobody really talks about, it's like twenty books in. So how has your relationship with the criticism and uh solitude changed over time? Um and is there anything that you still have to actively work at or something?

SPEAKER_00 25:55

Oh, yeah, yeah. Uh every writer does. In fact, it's funny. I spoke to another writer who's been uh been publishing books since the 80s, and so we're talking 40 years. Uh, and yeah, and he's been doing it forever. And he he's done he actually read scripts for television and books and all this sort of thing. And the joke I sort of I'll say, because every now and then I'll um because I'll do some other podcasts where I actually interview authors, haven't done that for a while, but I'll interview other authors. And um, and so I'll say, So, so what point of your book, usually what percentage of your book, do you look back and go, This is terrible? Um, uh I don't know why people think I can write, and I should have never even gotten to this business. I have no business being a writer. And and almost every author can tell you the answer to some extent. He he said it's about 60, 70 percent, where every single book you write, you get up to just past the halfway mark. And there's something about the halfway mark for me, I feel, right around, and he's right, that's where I feel it too. Right around 60, 70 percent, 70 percent of the book. I look back and go, like, this is no good. What have what have I been doing the past couple of weeks? Why did I think I could write? Even 20 books in, even 25 books, 30 books in, or whatever, how many books this guy has now? 30, 40 books in. There's still that moment when you're writing something and you've proven already, you've hit bestseller lists, or you're making a living off it like I do, you still go, even now, like I'm writing, I'm writing the second book in uh the after the fast icon. I'm writing the sequel right now, trying to get that out for October. And and I'm and I know, I know for a fact that coming up here, right on the halfway point, I'll go, this is terrible. What why did I think I could write? I couldn't, I can't write. I've run out of books. I had I had 20 books in me, I do not have 21, and I've run out of my book juice. So now, but it's gonna come. And so, so yeah, you at least if nothing else, knowing that that's coming ahead of me, I can prepare for it, I can get ready for it and build a bit of tolerance for it. But it's still gonna come and knowing that demon is out there waiting for me, sitting there on uh at that at that 60% mark. So yeah, you're you're always gonna have a bit of that. And thankfully, if you you know, after I've proven to myself, because that's the one thing about plenty of people um listening right now think, oh, I've always wanted a book. A lot of people want to have written a book. Uh uh, but it's really hard to write the book. It's really great to have a book done and then it's out there and people enjoy it or whatever it might be. But to actually writing the process of writing a book is really tough. But what I try and tell people, people that are interested in actually writing that first book, because there's somebody listening right now who's listening to this podcast at this moment, who the reason why they're listening is because the universe decided they needed to get off their butt or get back on their butt, maybe, and sit down and write that book. And they've wanted to do that. And and I can share some tips with you if you like for people, but the main one is just get to the end of the book. Because right now it's just that mental barrier of thinking writing a book is is a crazy thing to do. It's whatever it might be, 60,000, 80,000, 100,000 words. If you're epic fantasy, you're 150,000 words, which is crazy. Uh, but but getting to the part where it says the end, that's that's the challenge, just getting there, because then it proves to you, if nothing else, that you can write that book. That's how you get to books, you know, 20, 21, 22. Because even when I get to that 60% mark and I start doubting myself, I do have a bit of a history where, well, I've done it before, I've convinced myself I can do this in the past. I just need to keep pushing through to get that. So that for somebody who's trying to write that very first book right now and trying to make that happen, you just need to get you need to get to those two words, the end. You need to get to those words, and then it's a bit of a downhill slope after that. So just get to those words and and you'll make it work.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

So if you have to give one advice to the listeners today, what will you give?

SPEAKER_00 29:51

When it comes to to writing a novel? Yeah. Yeah. Uh I would say is uh no, one of the best pieces of advice I think that I've gotten and the best piece of advice for somebody who's just wanting to write a book right

Exercise As A Mental Reset

SPEAKER_00 30:06

now. If you've wanted to get just that book uh uh off your off your shoulders, your first draft is gonna be awful. Sorry, it just is gonna be it. They all are. First drafts are always awful, you know. So give yourself permission to be awful. That's really what it comes down to. Give your, you know, give in your I can make it stronger than that, but I won't. We'll keep it family, uh, family friendly. But give yourself permission to basically suck at this. And and that really helps. Because my first drafts are kind of chaos, they're all over the place. And there are plenty of times when I'm writing, I'll write something like, you know, Feynman says something funny here about Bert. You know, I don't have it at that moment, so just move on because that's trying to get to the end of it. So yeah, that's I think the number one thing is give yourself permission in that first draft for it to not be very good. That's fine. Get to those two words, the end, and you'll be good. But yeah, that's that's um, I think that's probably the most important piece of advice I can give you.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

Exactly. Okay. And if listeners wants to connect with you, how they can connect.

SPEAKER_00 31:08

Yeah, they can just um they can come on by uh dickwybrow.com, take a look at that. Um, if they're interested in a bit of a getaway story, uh the fast light con that comes out here on August 20th. And it might already be August 20th, but I assume this comes out. But it's basically kind of it's a bit of a getaway. Uh it's a it's it's an escape kind of book. And so if you want to check that out, there's sci-fi elements, there's humor elements, more than anything, it's just it's just kind of a fun story. And um, and people seem to be really enjoying it because basically it's about it's about a woman uh named Feynman, and um she it becomes a uh captain of a starship after her old crew dies in a fireball. So she inherits this position uh that she's not ready for because really that's what I like writing about. So basically, there's those moments in life where things are thrown at us that are really tough, and we're trying to deal with it. And then life goes, hey, how about I make this 10 times harder? And so that's kind of what this book is about. So Feynman becomes a captain of this starship. She's got to get a new crew, and she almost literally finds people that are on on the garbage heap. She's got like these busted-up robots that she brings on, she's got a guy named Bert. But sort of it's it's her against the world and these bad guys and all this sort of thing. And her crew are sort of these uh these people that are that you wouldn't think twice about. But when they all come together, they can be pretty amazing. And they fight together to to beat the bad guys and save their ship, which is their new home. So it's an uplifting book and it's kind of a kick. And you can find there's more details, as I mentioned, on the website, dickweibrow.com, and you can see it up on um uh on Amazon. It's in various sort of indie stores as a paperback. And the audiobook. I'm producing the audiobook with this amazing woman named Amy Hutchins out of New York, and she's so fantastic. So so yeah, any if you want to check any of those out, feel free. I'd love to hear from you.

SPEAKER_01 32:58

Amazing. That's really lovely. And any specific uh link they should go to connect with you.

SPEAKER_00 33:07

Yeah, uh, just you'll find everything, as I said, on the website. Dick Wybrow, D-I-C-K-W-Y-B-R-O-W. So dickwybrow.com, you'll find everything. You'll find everything there.

SPEAKER_01 33:17

Perfect, perfect, lovely. So, dear listeners, what I do is I'll put all the links, details, everything into the show notes for your easier friends. And uh you know, like I I really love our conversation. Uh uh, I mean it's very, it's very uh I'd say it's very motivating and you should also understand, dear listeners, like how uh life of a writer goes through. So uh it it it it's it was very great. I'm really thankful, uh Dick, for sharing your perspectives and uh and there listeners, like if one I mean there is one thing I want listeners and all of you to sit with from this conversation is there's that the loneliest part of making something and the most exposed

The 60 Percent Doubt Wall

SPEAKER_01 34:02

part of sharing it are not the opposite. They are the two sides of the same room and learning to live in that room gently is its own kind of resilience. So um thank you so much Frederick for uh being here and thank you everyone for uh with us. If you're listening, or maybe you will be listening later, um if something in this conversation feels familiar, whether you are a writer or just uh know like what it's like to build something alone and then hand it over to the world, I hope that you carry a little more patience with yourself because of it. With this, hope this is your host of weekend, this is my meetings. And we are on Healthy Mind Healthy Life or should I episode until next time, take care of your mind and see you soon. Thank you so much.