Why Success Still Feels Empty

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Carelessness, you know we all talk about success. Yes, you heard that word correct. Success. We all talk about success like it's the one clear target everyone can see. Like hit your numbers, um, climb the ladder, keep pushing forward. But what happens when you reach those milestones and still feel exhausted, empty, or uncertain about what comes next? Or maybe you're thinking like oh, I have already completed this. What's now? What I'll do. What if the framework itself is a part of the problem? Good to think about, right? So today we are looking at how clarity about what we actually need as human beings can reshape the way we define success. And why that shift might be the thing that keeps us from burning out in the first place. Yeah. So welcome to Healthy Money Healthy Life. I'm your host, Avek, and this is the podcast where we have real conversations about mental health, not as a theory or diagnosis, but as something practical you can bring into your everyday life. And our guest today is we welcome Nante Alexander. Welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Hi, thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Amazing. Thank you so much for being here. And before uh we get into the discussion, dear listeners, I'll quickly love to introduce with her. So she's an organizational psychologist, ICF certified coach, and author who helps people recognize the hidden patterns shaping who they are becoming. Yes. So there are a lot of things to discuss today, dear listeners. I do not want to take much of a time. Let's get started. So a lot of people

The Big Misunderstanding About Success

SPEAKER_01 2:05

feel like they are doing everything right on paper, but something still fills off. So when they come to you burned out or confused, um, what is the most common misunderstanding you think uh they have about what success is supposed to look like I think the common most misunderstanding is that the definition of success that they were giving is the only definition of success.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

And I think many people don't, they don't give themselves the space to question everything that they have decided to go after. And so when they get to that burnout state, for many people, I think it surprises them. It's like this is, like you said, exactly what I was supposed to be doing. I would told, I was told this would bring me happiness, and yet I'm not feeling it. Why am I exhausted? Why am I tired? Why do I feel like I'm just like kind of chasing the wind, so to speak? So I think the biggest piece of that is not giving themselves the space to question.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

Correct. Correct, yeah. So when someone realizes their version of success is not actually theirs, so then where does that realize usually come from? Like, is it a moment or more than a kind of slow unraveling? What?

SPEAKER_00 3:37

I love that that slow unraveling piece because I use that a lot in my work, like that and oftentimes connected to like that soft unraveling, because most people don't come to that realization at one moment, particularly if they're not in situations where they get to speak about it. So, like when I'm coaching, it it comes about a lot of times, even within that first session, is something that, you know, the light bulb that goes off in them. But in general, we we're staying on autopilot. Like when we think about this world, when do we really take the time to stop and pause and say, How am I feeling? How am I doing? We don't often do that. It's always go after more, get more, do more. So I find that it takes an individual some time, even in my coaching, they might get that aha moment, but to dive deeper into the patterns, it takes some time and that takes coverage because you can recognize something is wrong. Doesn't mean you're gonna take the time it needs to dive into what is that thing and how did you get there in the first place. So it's really about giving yourself that space, number one, to start the question, but two, the grace of knowing you're not gonna get the answer overnight because you didn't get to that point overnight. But just starting it is going to be the thing that can get you to that

The Slow Unraveling Off Autopilot

SPEAKER_00 4:55

end point of okay, this is what it is. Now what do I do about it?

SPEAKER_01 5:03

Exactly, exactly. Obviously, it makes sense and it is not about just the ambition or the achievement or the problem, but it's that we have been aiming at targets that someone else set up and we didn't stop enough long enough to ask whether those targets still mean anything to us. So uh you work with the leaders or the professionals across different industries. So, what do you think drives us to adopt these external definitions of success in the first place? Like, is it culture, comparison, or something deeper?

SPEAKER_00 5:40

I love that you just mentioned that point. I was actually working on that right before this conversation. And it was two of those things, is exactly one of the ones that I identified as well. Many of us got our definition of success from our family, from our culture. Um, even thinking about how you were told what the success looked like. And when I'm coaching, I get I've had the privilege of being a coach people from all different walks of life. I coach so many who are like first generation, you know, here in America. And oftentimes the pressure that they carry to achieve and to accomplish, even if it's not really something they wanted. Um, for those who come from even marginalized groups who live here in America, can take that pressure on of trying of walking through doors that their parents, their, you know, previous generations fought hard to open for them. So they feel that pressure to walk through them. And one of the key things I always share is just because a door has been opened for you doesn't mean that's the door you need to walk through. And so being able to give yourself that space to question that, to ask, is this really what I want? Or is this told this is what I should want? And that that's a hard question to answer because there's so much pressure and obligation. And even you want to make your parents proud. You want to respect all the work that they they did before you to get you to where you are. But that also doesn't mean reducing your autonomy. Like you have that right to choose the direction that you want to go in. And I'm constantly trying to help people to understand that. Like you don't have to keep going in the direction you're in. You can say, no, this doesn't work for me, but it's so hard for so many people to accept that because it's what's been put in them. And then once you get into the workplace, uh managers and sometimes the whole organization is focused on getting you to that next point. Keep going, keep doing. So you get the promotion today, and tomorrow they're talking about what do you need to get to the next one? You rarely even get to sit in the accomplishment that you've uh you've done before you have to start focusing on what that next step is. And I've coached so many high-achieving professionals who tell me, like, they may not want to go to that next level. They're content where they are, but their manager above them or the leaders above them are saying, this is

Family Culture And Workplace Pressure

SPEAKER_00 8:10

where you need to go next. And so that fear of saying no to that, because then they fear that they're gonna eliminate any opportunity to grow in the future. So they'll keep going that route. They'll allow people to walk them down this journey that they really aren't don't want or aren't ready to go down for fear that they will lose the opportunity later on. So definitely, culture organizations can provide that. And even our pop culture, I mean, when you think about the music and the movies, all you hear is make money, you know, chase the money. But no one ever tells you why you're chasing it. What do you hope is going to give you once you get that? And is it even possible of giving that thing to you, that feeling that you're looking for? So, yeah, there's so many different reasons why we define success the way we do. But the key piece is to start to question why do I think about it that way? And what does success really mean for me?

SPEAKER_01 9:11

Exactly. Exactly. And when people start to untangle that, um what they I mean, what what do they usually find underneath? Like what are the needs or the values that were there all along, but God for it?

SPEAKER_00 9:33

The needs and the values, you just hit to you're on a roll. You are on a roll with what I've been working on a lot lately. The needs and the values, which values, which are two different things that should work in harmony with each other. And so the first exercise I always give anyone I'm coaching is a values exercise. In our second session, that's exactly what we're going over. I have them identify their top five core values. And when you think about it, most people can kind of know in their heart what they value, but very rarely can people name it. And so being able to put language to the things that you care about most that's most important to you, is what's going to help you to start to make decisions that are more aligned with it. So if you know family, for example, is a core value of mine, are you living in harmony with what you're saying matters most to you? Are you putting a lot of your energy, time, and resources into something else, and that's being put to the side. So once you start to get the language for what your values are, that's when you can really start to identify how you can start to live them. The other key piece that you mentioned are what is it they need? What is it they may be looking for, those goals to give them? And I actually identify seven universal needs. These needs that I identified are you, every single one needs them. You just may need more of one than another in any season in your life. But usually what we're all looking for is love, purpose, peace, worth, a sense of belonging, safety, like slash security, and freedom. And so most of the time when we're accomplishing things, when we're doing things, we're hoping it's going to give us one of those things, if not many of them at the same time. But what we don't give ourselves the space to ask is, will that thing give us that? Does that thing have the capacity to give us that? So even for example, I spent most of my childhood. I love fairy tales growing up. I spent most of my childhood going into the dull hole, adulthood, wanting love, wanting a marriage, wanting a relationship. And there's nothing wrong with that. But oftentimes we think once we get that relationship, it's going to guarantee that we feel loved. And there's no guarantee. You can get that relationship, you can have that marriage, you could find that partner and still feel unloved in it. There's no guarantees with that. Same thing with the job. You can go after that promotion and you could receive it. Doesn't mean it's going to build up your worth. So we have to be able to identify the limitations on some of the goals that we set in relation to what it can give us, how it can make us feel. Because not everything we go for can give us what it is we need, not just looking for, but what we need.

Core Values And Seven Human Needs

SPEAKER_01 12:34

You mentioned earlier that understanding what we need as human beings to thrive is part of this. So if you can just share and uh walk us through like what that actually means. Like, what does thriving look like when we strip away all the productivity language?

SPEAKER_00 12:58

So thriving and my lens looks like when you strip away everything, it's are you functioning the way you were designed to function? And so burnout, if you're reaching burnout, that means you're not functioning the way you design because your body is already telling you you're doing too much. If you are in relationships where you are really unhappy and you're feeling like you have to shrink who you are to be in them, you're not functioning by your design because love is not gonna make you erase who you are. If you're in that job role and you come home every night stressed, talking to family, like this, the pressure there, I'm overwhelmed, they're not recognizing my value, my worth, then you're not living according to your design because purpose is not gonna drain you. So being able to kind of make those connections of what is my body telling me I need? What is my heart telling me I need to be feeling? What is my brain telling me what am what should I be thinking in these certain dynamics? And even the strength, your resources, your capacity, am I respecting the limits of those? If you find in any way, shape, or form that one of those things are off track, then you know you're not fully functioning and thriving the way you are designed to.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

And uh how do you help someone identify that when what those needs are for them, especially if they have spent years ignoring or overriding them?

SPEAKER_00 14:38

That is where the power of questions come in. I, you know, I've been saying as we've been speaking, give yourself the space to ask, the permission to ask. And that's why coaching, when you have a really great coach, they should be able to ask you those questions that will help you to start to think that way. I don't have the answers from my clients, and that's not what the rule is. Of course, I have a lot of thoughts and advice, but the key thing is can I ask them the right questions that's going to get them to the answers that are true to them? Because it's nothing more powerful than the person being able to recognize something for themselves about themselves. We could tell someone something, but it usually doesn't have the impact, the same impact if they recognize it and say it themselves. And so often that that is my goal, that's my hope that when I get into a space with someone, I ask the questions that will help them to get to their truth, to the reality themselves. And then I walk them through that process. Okay, now what do you do with that? You know, well, let's dive deeper into that. But if you don't have the ability to have a coach, if you don't have the ability to have, you know, the circumstances to get a mentor, etc., you still have the ability to ask yourself questions. And the only way you can start there is with the pause, the permission to pause, the permission to stop, the permission to challenge.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

So um one more part, which is I believe it's very important is um change. Like change, things like this that doesn't happen overnight. So uh someone redefines that there's a starts building a life that feels more aligned and then life gets

What Thriving Looks Like Without Hustle

SPEAKER_01 16:25

messy again. So how do I what do you think? Like, how do people sustain this shift when old habits, expectations, or external pressures creep by is that like you said, that continuing check-in progress.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

You have to stop, you have to do the self-evaluation. What works for you in one season of your life may not work for you in the next. So if you constantly going, using the same processes, the same patterns you've been using your whole life in every place you go, something is gonna, something's bound not to work, you know. So change, the most lasting change I find is the ones that are identity-based changes. And so what I mean by that is let's just say that you're a mom and you've showed up as a mother in different ways 18 years, and then you get to the point where your child is going off to college or they're leaving the nest. You may have spent 18 years with all of your focus and energy going into your child, into your family. And now you find yourself really only having to focus on you. How do you show up then? Do you show up with the same patterns and skills that you had to show up when you were taking care of a child? Or do you start adjusting how you show up in your life so that you can start to grow yourself as a person entering in the next phase of life? And so even that means if you're in that situation, one thing may mean that might mean is that you don't have to keep your phone on nonstop, you know, because you're waiting for the school to call if something happens. You can start to put things on, not disturb. You can go to your favorite thrift shop and just enjoy it, a massage. You may not have to save that money up that you would have spent on a massage to get a school uniform, you know? So it's just being able to sit back and say, where am I at in this season of my life? Do I still need to do use the strategies and maybe even coping mechanisms I had to use when I was in previous situations or circumstances? And then you make that small one specific change. Like even talking to coaching a couple of my clients who struggle with setting healthy boundaries at work. And it's not necessarily that the their managers are someone who won't support them. A lot of times they just haven't spoken up and said what they needed. And when I ask them, like, well, you know, why? It's like, oh, I'm

Identity Based Change And Small Steps

SPEAKER_00 18:55

nervous about what they may say. And even though their reality has been that they've had positive, you know, experiences with their manager, they still kind of put a uh, they usually mute themselves. And so one identity-based change or challenge that I give them is go into that office and just say, Hey, how you doing? Can I talk to you about A, B, C, or D? It's not this big, I'm going to walk into the office the next day and I'm this brand new person and I'm not going to take anything from anybody. It's not that huge thing. It's that one little step of doing something different than what you normally would have done. And then seeing how that feels because every time you make that small, one incremental change, that's giving you data. It's giving you confidence to help you to do that next thing. So I always feel start small and identity-based change, and you will slowly see how it will start to shift your identity.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

So um if you have to give an advice to the listeners today, what will you give?

SPEAKER_00 20:06

The most helpful advice I would love to give is once again, give yourself the power to question and give yourself the permission to stop. Once you do that, you can never you can see what need what's needed next. But if you're continuing to go on autopilot, you can't expect much else to change.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

Anna Calism wants to connect with you, how they can connect.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

They can find me on my website, www.shantealexander.com. And once they get there, they can find ways to connect with me through

Advice Resources And Closing Reflection

SPEAKER_00 20:45

my books, um, through my coaching. They could bring me in for you know keynote speaks, uh speeches and workshops. However way they want to connect with me, they can find a way there because I like to meet people where they are. So once they go there, they can see what works for them.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

So uh the listeners, like what I'll do is I'll put all the links, details, everything into the show notes for easy reference so that I can easily reach out uh to her. And um uh, like, I mean, thank you so much for being here. And uh it's really, really great hearing from you, knowing your perspective, um, how things work and all those scenarios. And uh listeners, like if you're listening right now, maybe we'll be listening later as well. The question is whether it is asking for what you are willing to give or just what you have been conditioned to offer. So if this conversation starts something, just like clarity doesn't demand the perfection and it just asks you to pay attention. Thank you so much everyone for listening to Healthy Mind, Healthy Life. Take care of yourselves and we'll see you in the next one. Thank you so much.