Why Rock Bottom Can Start Change

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Welcome back, listeners, to Healthy Mind, Healthy Life. I am your host, Sana, and as you all know, this is the show where we have honest human conversations about the things that matter the most: your mental health, your growth, and then what it really takes to keep going when life gets hard. So think about the moment your life fell apart. I mean, I know it can be difficult, but then uh just imagine what if that moment is actually the moment it started. And not because, not because I'm romanticizing pain or suffering in here, or it is poetic in any way, or not because struggle is a gift, but because sometimes hitting the floor is the only thing that forces us to look up. Today's guest was 19 years old when everything stopped. His plans, his dreams, his sense of who he was. And yet, here he is, not just surviving, but showing up for others who are still on the floor. So, yeah, stay with us. I'd like to introduce my guest to all of you. So, Jack Nolan, one of the UK's youngest mental health and empowerment speakers. He's a published author, someone who has navigated to serious mental health breakdowns, rebuild his life twice, and he now helps others to do the same through speaking, storytelling, and his message that you can become more than your hardest chapter. So, we're talking today about mental health and personal development and what it actually looks like to grow through what you go through. So, listeners, let's welcome Jack Nolan. Jack, welcome to the show. And it's really, really an honor having you here.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Oh, thank you so much for that beautiful introduction. I don't think I've had an introduction as beautiful as that before. So thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Jack. It really means a lot coming from you. And uh Jack, uh, before we we we get into the topic and all the discussion, of course, um I would love to start somewhere a little personal. Um, I mean, when you think back to who you were before everything shifted at, I mean, yeah 19 is such, I mean, it's it's uh young, but still, I mean, who was that version of you? Like, what were you chasing?

SPEAKER_02 2:38

Hey dear listeners. Before we begin, a quick note from Heldiman Payavik. This episode is created for educational and informational purposes only. The views shared by our guests are their own and may not reflect those of the host or network. Nothing in this conversation should be taken as medical, legal, financial, or professional advice. Please consult a qualified professional

Success Culture And The Fear Of Help

SPEAKER_02 3:00

before making important decisions. We encourage you to listen with curiosity, think independently, and use this content as a starting point for reflection, not a substitute for professional guidance. Now, settle in and enjoy the conversation.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

I was chasing success like every young man does. I was just so driven to achieve that I forgot about the most important thing, my health. Because I see health now looking back as wealth. Because without my health, I can't achieve all the great things that I want to achieve in my life if I'm unwell in hospital or worse. So, you know, it's a big reality check for me at that point in my life that made me realize who I am, what I'm doing, and that success is not success at all.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

Hmm. And that is something uh me, unfortunately, uh, I didn't realize at the age of uh 19, or maybe in fact, till my late 20s, honestly, uh Jack, uh that was something very gradually through specific moments and events in my life, I kind of have been, I'm still in that process of realizing, but it's it's like you know, you are fighting with that old version of you, um, and in those moments. But then there's this idea that asking for help, and I think it kind of has this cultural uh uh cultural um source also factor, also, like even admitting that you are not okay. I mean, we all keep on saying, yeah, I'm good, I'm fine, I'm doing well, how are you? I'm doing good. So everyone is like doing good. I think admitting that we are not okay is somehow it's a sign of weakness, um, especially for young people. I think to some extent it also kind of is a taboo. Uh yeah. Uh and I wonder, Jack, from your own experience, what do you think keeps people from recognizing that they are struggling until it becomes a crisis? Why do we do we procrastinate or do we just don't want to handle it? I mean, what stops using from seeing it sooner?

SPEAKER_00 5:13

I think it's fair. You know, the fear and acceptance that we have a problem. No one really wants to admit they've got problems. And it takes a lot and it takes a lot of courage to speak to a friend, a family member, a professional, and admit things aren't working right on the inside. Like I have a good friend of mine and he always asks me, he goes, How are you for you? I think that saying, how are you for you is a testament of empathy and emotional intelligence because in life we don't really ask ourselves, how are we for we, instead of just saying the surface level, yeah, I'm all right, I'm okay. You know, no, actually, how are you? You know what I mean, if that makes sense. So I think actually overcoming them fears and having more conversations and spreading more awareness like this for your podcasts and media vehicles, we can actually make a positive change in the world.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

We can, we can. I mean uh not the numbers, but even if just one person, maybe probably after this, they go back, maybe they have that conversation with themselves or maybe with someone, they know um that creates a huge difference. It still creates a huge difference. It's kind of a ripple effect, you know. Um, and and I I really love the way, you know, that question is how am I for myself? Uh, how are you for you? Yeah, um, and Jack, um once again, I'm going back to where we started that very uh time, you know, when you realized, um, were there signs that that you were moving toward that edge,

The Warning Signs Before Crisis

SPEAKER_01 6:50

you know, signs that maybe you or maybe the people around you uh didn't quite know how to read at that time. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

Yeah, most definitely. I was becoming manic and I was becoming like erratic in my behavior because of that ambition and that drive. I just wasn't stopping for sleep. I wasn't looking after myself, and I was getting more, you know, more open to this world of mental health without realizing that I was in the thick of it. And in the thick of that mental health tragedy, I had a mental health breakdown that led to me having a psychology episode. And the signs was that my behavior was changing. I wasn't behaving the way I normally behave. That means the language that I was using was different, the way I was, you know, showing up for myself was different, you know, not looking after myself, not stopping for rest, not stopping for recovery, just onto the next mission, onto the next mountain, jump, jump, jump for all these hoops with no stopping and for recovery. And I wasn't talking to my mum and dad about how I actually was feeling on the inside. I wasn't having open conversations about my journey, where I'm at, how I'm feeling, the impact the workload that was putting on myself was having on me. I just kept it all bottled up on the inside. I felt this like intense pressure to succeed at such a young age because I felt like I had a lot to prove and I had a lot of stress on my shoulders from relationships to friendships to family to education to the work that I was doing outside of the education system, working in the media. And it was just a lot that was taking on. I wasn't ready for it. I wasn't mentally prepared in how to manoeuvre all these responsibilities and stresses in my life at that time, which then led to me going down this dark rabbit hole and experiencing a trigger of psychosis.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

I can understand that, Jack. Raphina Muslim, because um now you can actually you have that language for what was happening inside you. Uh, and I think uh often, often with many of us out there, we we don't kind of still we don't have a kind of a name for it. Uh and this gap between that feeling something and then naming it, I think that's where so many of us we we get lost quietly. Either we completely uh ignore it or we mask it because uh this thought that I don't want to create any kind of unpleasant situation in the lives of the people I know or I love. I don't want to get any kind of uh misunderstanding in there. That's why let's just keep everything inside myself and let's just we we kind of try to conform to the external um uh standards. We try to be super successful and just go, go, go, do it, do it, do it. And um, we just want to kind of you know ignore it. And I think it's it's this is a very important place to pause. Um and Jack, uh, when you uh when you have spoken publicly about your story, uh, and I really, really appreciate because yes, it takes a lot, a lot of courage uh to be openly sharing uh you know with the people out there. I mean, you lost on everything from breakdown, diagnosis, then starting from scratch, rebuilding. Um what you I mean, you know, what you found underneath of all that? Because breakdowns, I believe they really come from just one thing. Uh, like what were the deeper patterns you noticed in yourself when you had the time and space, like when you sat down with yourself, actually?

SPEAKER_00 10:45

Yeah. So for me, it was identified that I was fatigued, and when your brain is tired and you've not got sleep in your body, when you've not rested and recovered from you know a long week or a long period of time that you've been running, you know, it's like the the longer you run, the weaker you become almost. And I didn't understand that methodology, and I didn't understand myself because the client that I was on this mission, this erratic behaviour with this sense of urgency to just keep smashing against the wall and hoping that I get through the other side. And the other side I got through was becoming a well, my mental health, and I I learned that the hard way, you know, on two occasions. Uh, the first occasion, you know, as as you know, it was a psychotic episode, and then the second occasion was me having a manic episode that led to paranoia and me self-destructing for the

Hospital Reality And Two Breakdowns

SPEAKER_00 11:45

second time around after a period of about nearly probably just over a year of being at a hospital from the first time. And in that hospital experience the first time, you know, reality really kicked in for me when another patient in the hospital was on the phone to a restaurant and he was ordering some food. And when he was ordering that food, he said these words that changed the game for me, which was, I'm in a mental asylum. When he said them words, my brain just clicked and it just made me realize, oh my God, this is where I actually am. This is my reality, this is how deep into the rabbit hole of mental illness I am in. So I really broke down in tears. There was a flood of emotion and shock, horror, and you know, it was a very surreal and scary place to be in. And I wouldn't have, you know, got to them points if I had more understanding on mental health. You know, I might have been put in hospital, but it might have been, you know, a lot sooner. I might have been able to get medication sooner, you know, understand had more on my illness that I was dealing with. But even the doctors didn't know, you know what I mean? Because on paper, I looked like I was doing well, I looked like I was a success, and I wasn't taking any like drugs or drink, you know, drinking too much at the time. So it really had a shock impact on me and my whole family as I self-destructed and lost the plot basically.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

I think that is uh it is, it is uh we often uh wait for the big moment or or the big breakthrough. Um but I mean what you shared uh is is I think uh yeah. I mean it's exactly you know we often don't have language for that. I think uh but but what I can say uh uh is is that it's really grounding and it's not about that uh you are fixing uh something but or you're broken. It's just about about understanding that why exactly it was fragile in the first place. And I think it takes a different kind of courage, you know. It it doesn't always be realized.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

Well, I'll be honest with you, I was I was a shy kid growing up and I got picked on and quite a trauma in my life. And you don't realize it, but your subconscious is powerful, it's holding on to all these limiting beliefs, all these challenges and stresses, and that's what really inspired this sense of urgency to be a success quick was because I didn't have that much self-esteem. You know, I didn't have confidence, I didn't have, you know, courage, I didn't have heart, I didn't have anything. I was just this victim mindset, feeling secure, feeling afraid. And I tried to channel all these emotions into my work and into my path to become something, even though I didn't realize I already was something, I was me, I was Jack Nolan, the same way we all are who we are. You know what I mean? We all are a somebody. Just because we're not got millions of pounds in our bank accounts or we've not got the success that we want straight away in life, doesn't mean that we're not a somebody. We are, we're all the somebody in life. You're somebody's daughter, you're somebody's brother, you're somebody's son, you're somebody's father, you're somebody's uncle, or whoever it may be. We are all somebody's in this world. Just because we're not, you know, where we want to be in life at the beginning of our journeys doesn't knock who we are. And I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

Yeah, I mean sometimes life is a very interesting way of uh getting you face to face with yourself. And maybe, maybe uh good thing is it kind of gives you that mirror to know yourself truly from the inside out, not externally but internally.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

Before we uh wrap up, I I want to go to the personal development part because often uh uh these aspects like motivation or positivity, uh often, you know, in the popular uh way that we see is very um it's a heavy word, but I I'll still say because that's what it is, it is toxic to a huge extent. It's like you just be positive and life is going to be all you know roses, but it is not that's the way it is not. And when it comes to personal development, you you have spoken to audiences at energy in schools, corporate companies, and then yeah, your message it reaches people across all

Trauma And The Drive To Prove

SPEAKER_01 16:40

different circumstances. So um when someone is uh in a genuinely difficult place, it's not just you know, I'm feeling bit off, but really, really struggling. What do you think is the most honest, grounded first step they can take toward um changing their story or just you know taking that first step for that change? Because that's not going to happen immediately or overnight, but at least I'm just you know progressing.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

I think from if someone recognises within themselves that they're not okay, they've already made the first and most important biggest step, I believe, to recognize it, to recognise actually I've got a problem here instead of masking it and like hiding away from it. You know what I mean? They've actually recognised it and they've had the courage to say to someone like myself, after at the end of an event, after me delivering a speech, they've had the courage to come up to me and tell me, you know what I mean, that's a massive step in the right direction. Even though it's not the first step, it's always the biggest step. And then it always gets a little bit, you know, easier to navigate. Easier, sorry. Not not that it's not hard, it really is hard. You know, to talk about your mental health, especially as men, you know what I mean? We are we try our best to be stoic, we try our best to be strong, we try our best, like you said, to be positive all the time, to be leaders. But at the end of the day, we're human. So we all experience emotions. Every single one of us experience depression, whether you've got a mental health challenge or not. You know, we all experience stress, we all experience emotions, tragedies, wars that are going on on the outside and the inside in our mind. And we're always battling with the world around us. So I want I I you know, I congratulate them for owning that. You know, I give them a hug, I give them a high five and say, listen, you know, thank you so much for sharing that with me. This is the first step towards the biggest recovery and comeback that they can make in their lives. So I always recommend professional help because obviously I'm not a professional, I'm lived experience of my illness bipolar, but I always recommend getting professional help, you know, going to a doctor, going to seek support, a psychiatrist, therapist, which I've done all of those things myself, and I've reaped massive rewards and benefits from doing that. And then speaking to family and close friends and just letting people know what's going on in the world of myself, like Jack. I still do this to this day. You know, last night I had a conversation with my my own dad, told him what was going wrong with me. You know what I mean? Like things were, even though I might look like the shiny side to the coin, most of the time, you know, social media is a big perception of, you know, being polished and having that highlight real. But the truth is I try and show both sides, the rusty side and the shiny side to that coin. And last night I had a bit of a rusty moment and I had to share that with my dad. We had a drink of orange juice together, and we just shared like how we were both feeling, what was going on, and the truth with how our emotions have been, as it's been quite a few challenges that I've been through recently. And I own that, you know, I take responsibility for that, and whatever life challenges you with, it's always an opportunity, as corny and as cliche as it may sound, to grow and become a better person. Because, you know, as you know, skilled sailors don't become skilled set at the harbour, they have to be in the rocky waves, and that's where them skills are earned.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

Love that, yes. That's how the skills are earned. Yeah, love that. And that's that's a really, really, I must say, Jack, tender, heartfelt moment. And uh also, I mean, especially from the lens of person development, I think it's a much needed frame that it's not the the social media version. Um, but uh it's it's uh it's it's also not a reward for people who have got it together. Um, I think it is something that belongs to the person who is still figuring it out. And I think uh a lot of our listeners, they definitely needed to hear exactly that. Uh and Jack,

The First Grounded Step Toward Recovery

SPEAKER_01 20:55

before we wrap up, um, is there anything uh that you would like to, you know, leave as a message? I mean, for someone, uh, maybe they are smiling on the outside, but they are really, really exhausted on the inside. You know, the one who's convinced themselves that you know their pain isn't big enough or real enough to matter. I mean, what would you want them to hear right now?

SPEAKER_00 21:19

I want you to know that you're not on your own. And every race car has to take a pitch stop to change its tires from time to time. So if you need to rest, it's not you being laser. You know, this idea that you have in your head that you're being laser, please just let them go. You're not being lazy, you're resting, you're recovering, so you can refuel yourself, re-energize yourself, and come back stronger each and every time. And please don't feel alone. You know, there's people in your community, there's people in your family who might be going through similar challenges. And the only way you can find out is by being the first to share how you're feeling. You know, speak to a doctor, speak to a therapist if you can, you know, speak to your friends, your family, and just let them know. Because there's no weakness, because everyone's got human emotions, everyone's got feelings, everyone's going through tough times. But we can make those tough times a little bit more gentle if we share exactly how we're feeling, because you know, I've I've read the world and the benefits of doing that, and it's kept me on track, it's kept me out of hospital for 10 years, and that's a major success moment for me from where I've come from, from section to success. And right now, in this moment, this is my success talking to you. You know, so wherever you are on your journey, no matter what's going on in your life and what you are challenged with, you know, please do not be afraid to ask for help because everyone in life needs a conversation. A conversation costs nothing, and it can always lead to something if you are brave enough and if you are courageous enough to open up your heart to those you trust. So please do it. You know, use me as a shield if you need to say, hey, I just listened to this podcast with Jack Nolan, and he said this and he said that, and have a listen to this. What do you think? And use me as your reason to create a conversation about mental health that to ease yourself into how you're feeling too. You know, honestly, please don't feel alone.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

Absolutely, absolutely. Yes, you're not alone, and thank you so much, Jack. Because I feel you you brought all of yourself to this conversation. And um, I mean, honesty, your honesty, your story, and also also uh I think that this is the most important path for reminding us that the path forward it doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to be real. So thank you. Thank you so much, Jack.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

No worries at all.

Rest, Conversation, And Closing Message

SPEAKER_00 23:50

Thank you for your time.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

And of course, Jack, uh, if our listeners they would like to connect with you, what are the best ways?

SPEAKER_00 23:58

The best ways to connect with me is on social media. My username most of the time is Jack Nolan underscore YCB. So please feel free to Google me. Uh reach out to me on email, website, social media. I'm always there and happy to help and support wherever I can.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

Super, super. And listeners, I'll have all the links. So do reach out to Jack. And of course, of course, as Jack mentioned, that um reach out to qualified professionals and uh reach out to your friends, your family, or your loved ones, of course. And um thank you to everyone for for listening, uh being here, and if something what Jack shared in today's episode it connected with you, please share it with someone who might need it. You never know, you never know whose day or week or whole year that one conversation might change. So, thank you to everyone. Thank you so much, Jack. And this is Healthy Mind Healthy Life, part of the Healthy Mind Bible Network. Take care of yourself, and I'll see you in the next one. Thank you so much.