Why Screens Keep Winning

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Welcome back to another episode of Healthy Mind, Handy Life. I'm your host, Cyan, as most of you would know, and on this show we keep mental wellness very real, grounded, and practical in everyday life. There's a quiet conversation happening in homes all over the world right now. And as a father who have a son or a daughter and a screen, I think the screen is winning because we have been kind of told that this is a tech problem, maybe a willpower problem, but underneath that, the people who actually sit with families when the damage shows up will tell you something different. And maybe, maybe it's a fatherhood problem. And it's not unfixable because today's guest has spent his life in the places where this gets real. My guest today is Doug Moore. Doug brings a combination of perspectives that you don't really find in one person. Because he he's a former wilderness trail guide, a former youth pastor, a practicing registered nurse, and a trained sexual assault nurse examiner. He's also the author of the Vanguard Project, which is equipping fathers to fight for their sons, released in March 2026, which has been called the book that fathers didn't know that they needed it until it was in their hands. So today I invite you all to join me on this conversation where we would actually look at the harder aspects of what really parenting asks of us. So, Doug, welcome to the show. I think this is a much, much needed one. So I'm glad that you're here for this today.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Yeah, it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

Likewise, thank you so much, Doug. So before we uh go deeper, start with any kind of uh cultural practice or anything at all, I want to put forth a disclaimer for all the listeners that some statements may reflect personal belief and experiences and are presented as individual views and not medical advice. Listeners should consult qualified professionals for medical conditions.

Connection Beyond Devices

SPEAKER_01 2:08

So, Doug, before we go any deeper, I would love to start uh at point zero. Uh, because across the uh Wild and Airs, the church, hospital, you have sat across a lot of boys and a lot of men in their hardest moments. So when you think about that, uh uh I mean, what made the difference for the ones who came back from the edge? You know, what's the first thing that comes to your mind? Uh, not any kind of uh framework or strategy-wise, but you know, what really comes from within?

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Yeah, I think one of the biggest struggles, as you've already alluded to, is um the way our um digital devices have a grasp and a hold on us. And many of us, whether it's in our career or things that we do in life, are tethered to devices. And so I think it is hard, you know, if you talk about addiction and ways that we um I think a lot of people get into this because they're finding a way to let me use the word numb out from things that are going on in life. So um one of the things that I really lean on from my wilderness training and um and even being a um a trained sexual assault nurse examiner is really finding a way to connect with things outside of a screen. And that's where we that's really not 100% the theme of the book, but it is where the book lands, or what we're doing is we're really trying to give people um a way to step away from the device and let them know that there's more. I mean, it's ironic that you and I are using digital devices for this, but I think it is this is a necessity. This is the way we're communicating. But I think yeah, that's one of the things I really encourage dads and sons to do is just to get dirt under the fingernails.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

Yeah, look, I mean, uh I'm gonna take a very uh uh diplomatic position, right? Because I I totally uh 100% agree with uh uh you because I think there there could be more, potentially more, uh bad use cases of a digital device than good cases, right? And that really depends on who is using it. Um, because as a teenager or a kid, you really haven't formed that understanding of what's right for you or what's wrong, right? You do what feels tempting to you, okay? And that's where uh addiction like uh digital addiction or uh pornography uh addiction comes into place. So I think there's a really common idea right now that uh these things like digital addiction or pornography are mostly uh content problem. But uh, you know, maybe blog the right side, spy the right app, and that government should have uh uh you know uh a place as well. I mean, if you look at uh China, for example, they banned uh apps like all, I mean, all uh uh Western apps like uh YouTube or uh yeah, what what was the other one? Sorry, I forgot. So I I believe uh they don't even use Instagram in that case, right? They have built their own apps in which media and content is heavily regulated, right? And um, I mean, it's it's kind of a weird statement, but I I I believe it has its own pros in that in that content. I'm I'm I'm curious to know your thoughts on this. But yeah, coming back to the actual question. So, from everything that you've actually seen, where does that framing usually fall apart? You know, what are the pay what are most of the parents missing about what's really happening to their kids and why just cutting off the content or you know the device or whatever it is, uh the apps is or might not be the right thing?

SPEAKER_00 5:53

Yeah, it's a

Filters Fail Without Relationship

SPEAKER_00 5:55

good question. Um, I think the biggest thing we need to do as parents first is examine what we how we're consuming media and and how we engage with our children. I I don't know if you experienced this, but where I live, there's times where parents um are their kids are just screaming for attention, but parents are busy scrolling. Um, so I think kids are all kids are smarter. I mean, you and I know we you probably sound like you've been around technology for a while, and so and I so have I, and we can find ways around filters, everything. Relationship is where it really lands, being able to have the conversations with our children and it being an I like to call it a no-shame game, which means we've probably we have experienced this. I say that our scars, they don't disqualify us from being able to speak to our children about this. So where we really land on this, we can have all the filters, but we want to have authentic conversations with our kids. That's one of the things I'm trying to really do is I um have a script um where dads can have conversations or moms um and help them. It's on-ramp. How do we start the conversation? Because kids are not going to be like, hey, so um little Johnny or Susie, are you looking at porn? And they'll be like, no, I'm not looking at porn, but a very disarming conversation. And I I don't know, I I think we do have a vast responsibility as parents. We're the yeah, I I don't disagree that um governments can have influence in these, especially where it's involving like sex trafficking and those type of things. But I think the the front lines of this is going to be in our homes and being willing to take that um hard step. That's the hard behind the word Vanguard. Vanguard is someone that leads and willing to step ahead and show um, you know, show the way. I think performative fatherhood is exhausting. So because the audience never collapsed, but responsible father fatherhood is quieter and it's the one a kid actually feels. Um, so our kids don't want perfect parents, they just need a present one. Yeah, hopefully they answered your question.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

Yeah, no, that Lance. I I love the way you uh you know summed it up. And I think uh yeah, I mean the that reframes matter so much on this because uh the conversation right now is uh mostly about the tools. But uh one would think, but what you're naming is something even more deeper, you know. The tools indeed do matter, and yeah, we I mean we as adults know how to navigate through all of that, but uh they're not the medicine from a child's perspective, right? I mean the relationship is so if if we stay with that for a few moments, Doug, uh underneath the screen time, underneath the uh addiction, late nights, and closed bedroom doors, there's something deeper happening to the mental state of a boy. So this question is particularly to all the parents so that they understand the uh nuance or I mean the nuances and an integrity of what really happens to uh that mind in in an isolated environment when it's just scrolling content and you know, I mean, uh it gets into into that uh wish you're a cycle, I would say. So what would you really like to put forth and uh maybe put forth a concerning statement from your end?

Dopamine, Shame, And Muted Eyes

SPEAKER_00 9:32

Well, one of the things I like to talk about is the dopamine response. Um, we all know that dopamine is our is a pleasure element. Um so like you and I are having an awesome conversation. And so that would hit us on a dopamine scale that just being able to talk to someone. So let's say if there's a scale one to 10, where you and I are on a two. The first time um a kid, um, uh child is exposed to pornography or any digital thing, that dopamine scale can hit a six or a seven. And at an age, let's say nine, 10, 11, 12, they don't know what to do with that. Um, it's like putting it on rocket fuel, a go-kart. I don't know, like a small little moped, and you put rocket fuel in it. They don't know how to control that. So that's where, and and what I call when a kid is carrying that, we call it muting the mic or the optical pulse. And what I mean by optical pulse is and using a nursing analogy, if I take your pulse, I know how your heart is beating. Optical pulse, you know, we we make eye contact, you know, that the mic has been muted. So that's one of our signs that kids are really struggling and they don't know what to do with that. They're like feeling guilt and shame. And you can go up to them, like, hey, especially if you find something on their device, like, you know, John, I saw this on your device tonight, and I know um you may not know what to do with that, but how about tonight? Let's put the device aside and then in the morning, you and I sit aside together and let's develop a strategy how to navigate this. And I want to share with you why I believe this is a very damaging thing for you and give them the, you know, why um a good sexuality within, I like to say, a fireplace where it's meant to be contained can be a beautiful thing, but it outside the fireplace, it can be a wildfire. Those are things that I've seen on the front lines. And, you know, if I could share this, what really sparked a lot of this was uh having a uh coffee with a dad at a coffee shop and his eyes are like bloodshot, and he feels like he did everything to help his son understand how to responsibly use his device. But uh his son got into a situation where he's now doing jail time and the dad's like, where have I failed? And the conversation that the son had with his dad after he's in jail is like, Dad, if I knew how to talk to you about this, if I knew you were a safe space, I wouldn't be in the situation that I am in now. And and really that's a catalyst for me putting this out there is I want to make a difference. I want us to lead and maybe not have young men or young women in this situation. Because you see the news stories just like I do, where this happens on a daily basis.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

Oh, yeah, that's very important. And I'm I'm glad that you brought this up. And look, we we've got to understand uh if you talk about any kind of addiction, what it does is um and it gets exponentially harmful at that young age, is that it really messes up your dopamine system. Like it flatlines. And uh, when I say flatlines, I mean imagine we're having a conversation, let's say, you like you said, right? It's on a two. And uh, if if we if we have to, I mean, it's it's so bad that it's actually, I mean, there's no age that would justify that uh flatline. You know what I'm saying? Even for a even for a uh uh adult man, that is something that I mean happens and you crave more of it. Um I mean a perfect example could be that of uh fantanyl, which is uh of course uh banned, but uh that is what it does, right? I mean, you it takes some of it, uh and in in that context, it could be any kind of addiction, not just digital addiction. Um, so so it's important. I mean, it just it just okay. So the way I would explain it to uh my listeners is that imagine, okay. I want to ask you a simple question, Doc. Why do you feel happy? Like, what makes you feel happy when you're happy? Like, if that question makes sense, what what would be your answer?

SPEAKER_00 13:32

No, absolutely. I mean, things that give me joy, like spending time with my children or being with my wife, um, that those are natural things to give me happiness. Yeah, now let me just But I mean, like that you're saying, but what's the feeling that I'm feeling? Well, I don't know if I'm that in touch with myself to figure that out.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

Yeah, so uh, you know, just to put that into perspective, um, you will not feel happy because happiness is, I think, on a relative scale, right? For you to be happy, there should be moments where you know your dopamine is below that happy threshold. And and so if you're not sad or if you're not anxious, or if you're not, you know, in these other unhappy states, uh, you know, most of your time, then you would not really feel the bliss because you your your um uh uh dopamine, let's say, and uh uh your um I would say, sorry, I I your oxytocin levels or whatever, whatever those happy osolings are, right? They're always all time high. And when that happens to uh a kid, you know, a teenager, uh, that becomes exponentially more dangerous because in that case, uh the chances of them going into isolation uh is is is exponentially higher. And it's you would be you would be strange to know what isolation does to people at that age, Doug, because obviously as as grown adult, uh you know that we uh can struggle a lot. And if if you put that into perspective for a kid, that that is where it becomes dangerous. So I want to uh lastly uh you know take this conversation to a more practical standpoint.

A Calm First Conversation Script

SPEAKER_01 15:11

So for the parents listening to this right now, uh, I think pornography is one of those topics that fathers usually go quiet around because uh, well, they don't really want to talk about it either out of shame or because they know that uh maybe they don't know what to say either, right? Or because they are battling it uh themselves. So for the dad listening to this right now, who's realizing that their kid's uh son has likely been exposed or already struggling, so what's a non-shaming or non-paniced first conversation that would actually look like if you could share?

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Yeah, I mean, what you want to really do, and you could probably relate to this, is you want to really listen. Um, so I would say, say it was tonight, I would just pause and um just take a step back. But the first thing I would do is just show them um that you're serious. And and in this day and age, if I'm talking to someone and they put their phone down or they close a device or close a book and make eye contact, and then um I think you can just ask the one real question is, you know, without fixing it, um, what can I do for you? How can I help you? And then let them know, let them verbalize that, but you know what you're gonna do. Um, you need to align with them, and it's a no-shamed thing. I mentioned earlier, your scars, many of us have struggled with this, and many of us have victory over it, but our scars don't disqualify from this. This is actually, I don't know if you ever had a time where you're struggling with something and you've talked to somebody about it, and they're like, dude, me too. I'm struggling with that also. And you're like, oh my gosh, it's not just me. And that's that's the where the power of a present father can be. You know, that's where being or even a mother, let's say there's homes where dads are not present. We're not behind here. You know, restoration is our specialty. And we can end the cycle with um when we can just tell our kids, and it's in the book, but it doesn't have to be, it's even on my website. I have scripts of even how if you don't know what to say, I have scripts of like what to say, like hey, and and to help you out with that. Um, I hope that answers your question.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

Yeah, it does. And I think that is really helpful and uh and an important uh reminder for um all the parents because I think uh most parenting advice assumes one missed moment is failure. So what you're saying is really honest, and I and I love what you're bringing to the table.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

So well, and yeah, and I I think love really matters here, just loving them through it, also. Sorry to interrupt.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Yeah, no, uh that's I think that's true. That's uh a very grounded way perhaps to uh put that forth because yeah, I mean, after all, they they carry, you know, a lot of trades uh from you. Um so obviously, you know, loving them and showing that, you know, no matter what you've got their back is something that uh ultimately would uh help them turn, I mean help them be a better person. So uh Doug, and I think there are a lot of parenting advices here and there, um especially in this uh digital uh heavy age. So I would just want to ask one more question and uh maybe when then we can uh wrap this off.

Grace For Dads Who Feel Behind

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Uh is that uh for the parents, uh father specifically listening to this right now, who feels like he has failed maybe as a father, okay, has that uh shame or guilt who knows something has been quietly going on under his roof and he didn't maybe was not able to catch it in time because you know himself busy in work or uh whatever uh the scenario might be, right? Uh what would you want him to hear right now in your words directly to him?

SPEAKER_00 19:00

I love that question, and I've been kind of alluding to it through the whole thing because I know as a father I feel behind a lot. That's and one of the things we have to do in this age of social media is not measure ourselves up against other people. We know the fathers that we want to be. So, one, um, just to kind of use a biblical term here, but just give yourself grace and realize that, you know, you still you're it's not lost. Now, there are gonna be times where our children may be disconnected with us. But the thing is, is always be present. Give yourself some forgiveness. Give yourself grace. Stop measuring yourself against the dad that you were last week. Our restoration is our specialty, you know, and the cycle can end. Just know that you can help end the cycle with yourself and take the opportunity to be the vanguard, to step up and direct your son or your daughter where they need to be. And I think that that's where the power is. I know it's oversimplified, but honestly, just being present and showing your kids, our kids want that. They desperately want that. Sometimes they may push back, but just to constantly be a present person. So don't be discouraged by your scars. And as I mentioned earlier, you know, just be a responsible father. And what that means is just being present. You don't need to be perfect. All you got to do is be present. Um, and the bar is lower than we think, and the impact is higher than you think. I love that to say that, but the bar is lower than than we think it is, but our impact is higher because ultimately our kids just want a father that loves them unconditionally, but also understands where they're coming from.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

Yeah, I think I mean a boy doesn't need a Bovit father, he'd be right. He needs a

Resources To Start Tonight

SPEAKER_01 20:51

present. When what you said right now is um absolutely, I mean, it's heartwarming. So uh, Doug, before we close out, I want to make sure that listeners can pick you up and uh I mean uh find you and also Vanguard, the Vanguard Project, especially the fathers who needed this episode tonight. So, where should they go?

SPEAKER_00 21:10

Um, yeah, I the first thing I tell you to do is go to thevanguardproject.org. I mean, you can order the field manual on there, but also I have a lot of free resources. There's a link at the top that says resource kits, and it has many tools that you could use tonight before you even get a copy of the book, how you can talk or today, how you can talk to your kids. And then uh the book's available on Amazon, the Vanguard Project. Um, it's Kindle. We've got an audio book being created right now. So really my passion is that I just want to reframe the narrative. And so yeah, I really appreciate you having me on today.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Yeah, I know. I think the pleasure is mine because uh this is something um that I believe uh a lot of parents need to hear specifically because uh well we're living in uh such a digital uh age, and um I think yeah, we uh we pretty much I think made it clear of what good and uh I mean what good parenting looks like, right? Which is just being present. So uh I think before we close out, uh here's what I'm carrying with me from this conversation, and of course I would want the um uh fathers today, the parents today to um maybe carry forth is that the screen is not really the enemy, it's the it's the uh uh shame or the guilt that creeps up once the silence is spilled. Uh