Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Welcome back to Healthy Mind, Healthy Life. I'm your host Yusuf, and this is the show where we open up the conversations most people are too afraid to start. The ones about being human in a world that often asks us not to be. Today's guest has lived through a side of this conversation that many of us only see from a distance. Andrew McLean is a former news reporter and has served as a police constable with the Waterloo Regional Police Service for 18 years. He's worked as a detective on major investigations, served as an acting surgeon, and trained new recruits. In 2021, after years of front-line work, Andrew was diagnosed with PTSD and has been on leave since then. He used his time to write a book about this experience and to advocate for emergency service mental health awareness. And today, you're talking about the human cost of carrying other people's first days and what it takes to come back from that. Andrew, thank you for being here. I know this is not an easy conversation, and I'm grateful you have made space for it.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

Well, I appreciate it, and I thank you for the forum to be able to uh have this conversation. Uh it's it's sometimes not easy, but at the same time, I think it's a conversation worth having, definitely, for uh for a lot of people.

Why He Chose Policing

SPEAKER_00 1:41

So before we get into the harder parts, I want to start with you as a person. What pulled you toward this work in the first place? And was the version of you who first put on the uniform very different from the one sitting with me today?

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Yes, and yes. Uh so uh I would say that what drew me into policing is it's actually very common. Um, you know, amongst most people who get drawn into uh emergency services, they have a need to help and they just want to help fellow men. Um, you know, they want to help people in the worst times of their lives and and and victims and that sort of thing, but they also want to catch bad guys and and and keep society safe. So I think it's it's it's a call to service and and and some of us uh that's really the the reason to do it. It's it's it's to help. Um the person sitting in front of you today is definitely a different person than uh who first put on the uniform, that's for sure. I uh, you know through my time as a reporter and and starting in policing, I was you know not really aware of how much of an empath I was. Um I was very into people pleasing. Um conflict resolution. I was the the kid that all my friends came to to help them through the problems, and you know, so I thought it would be very well suited to that. And then, you know, I kind of did that in my journal journalism career as well. Um and so I thought, you know, I would be prepared for that. Um however, right from the first day that I started on the road with my own coach officer, uh I very quickly realized what lurks underneath everyone's sort of pleasured existence. Um, you know, I often say we dealt with the 1% of the population in the net and protected 99% of the population from that 1%. Um so, you know, in the community you live in, it it was quite the eye-opener to realize just what lurks underneath the surface. You know, even in in normal looking homes, you know, there's domestic disputes that we have to solve. There's all sorts of things that that uh I just don't think normal people can be prepared for. And no matter how prepared you are for it, you can't be prepared for it. It's it's like one of those jobs uh across emergency services, really nursing, doctoring, and all that stuff, too, that you know, they could train you all you want, but once you're immersed into the actual call itself or the the situation itself, no amount of experience on whatever job you did before can prepare you for that type of responsibility.

The Myth Of Unshakable Officers

SPEAKER_00 4:21

Yeah. And you know, there's this misunderstanding that or the image that we hold of officers as unshakable as the ones who handle it. But from the inside, uh what is the biggest myth about what Senth actually looks like and what it costs to you guys?

SPEAKER_01 4:43

Yeah, uh, that's a good question. It's it's outwardly we'll see that zoic sort of neutral person who uh, you know, has to step into a situation and it's assume control because that's basically what you have to do. Um, you're the one now in control of people's lives and the situations that you find yourself in. Uh, you're the one that these people are looking to for leadership. Um, you know, so outwardly the your second persona, I guess, kind of just takes over and you and you do it, right? Because that's what you have to do. Inwardly, you don't really think about the gravity or the the danger of the situation sometimes or the sheer heartbreak of the situation until after, um, because the mask comes off. So, like uh I almost look at it like you have two personalities, you'd like there's cop Andy, and then there was human Andy, and then human Andy would take over. And and um when you're private or you're alone, you have time to reflect on what you just did and what just happened and what could have happened. And you kind of leave a piece of yourself at every call. Um now is the calls were where human Andy and cop Andy have to overlap. So when you know you're giving people really bad news, like a loved one just died in a car accident or or was just murdered or or committed suicide or something like that. Um human Andy also has to take over. You got to be the one giving them a hug. You have to be the one to kind of guide them through the grief and uh in the immediate aftermath of finding out news like that, because people, you never know how someone's gonna respond, right? And and and sometimes people respond very, very emotionally and and and you have to be the one contained and and and and to let them vent, let them talk, let them do whatever it is they gotta do, but be that pillar of strength for them as well, so that uh, you know, they're they're allowed to be weak. And that, you know, those are the calls that mostly take a toll on people who care. And and and because you you can't help but to put yourself in their situation. And and because if you don't, you you you really can't deliver the news or be as supportive as you need to be, especially in situations that are delicate like that.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

You know, the public image of strength is one thing, but the human reality of it is something we almost never get to hear about.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

That's very true. And and, you know, like I I think, you know, the you know, the average person would have an interaction with, say, a police officer like me. You know, I pull them over on the side of the road, maybe give them a speeding ticket or something like that, you know, but that's like less than 1% of the job. I mean, for me anyway, you know, you you've sworn to upheld uphold the law, but also protect the public. So a lot of what we do um doesn't make the news, you know, and and stuff that affects us doesn't really make the news. So people don't really think about the human toll that you take, you know, like when you when you're when you're giving a death notification, for instance, you know, and you're telling a you're telling a wife with young children that their husband was killed in a construction accident or a car accident or something like that, um, that's obviously not going to make the news. But those are the ones that wait that carry the heaviest, because you know, I can tell you from experience, every time you drive by that house, you look around, you see if those kids are okay or how they're managing, and you wonder what you know, what I could have done differently or how I can help these people. And then when you when you add that times a hundred, times a thousand, you know, um over the course of your career, you can't help but to be reminded of true human suffering no matter where you go. And, you know, that's you know, people think of it, well, you must see a whole bunch of things. Well, yeah, we do, we do. And and I'm not discounting that. It's it's just your your your need to help almost becomes so overwhelming, but you start to realize that you can't really help everybody, right? You're you're you you're you can only help those who want help, but at the same time, like you can't help that wife who lost her husband. There's nothing you can do about it. And and and as problem fixers, it's it's a very hard pill for us to swallow. And it's not a selfish thing, it's more just an empathy thing. Like, you know, I couldn't imagine you being given the same news, you know what I mean? And and you know, having to carry on. So you carry that pain to the next call, to the next call, you know, and and I think what a lot of people in the public don't understand too is that, you know, you could have just had a call like that. You could have had just a devastating call, but it's only an hour into your shift or two hours into your shift, and you got to move on to that neighbor dispute or something that, you know, should be able to be solved by two rational people who can talk to one another. And so maybe that police officer shows up a little bit grumpy and doesn't want to, you know, maybe you get a bad impression about that. But what you have to understand is what did that officer do before they just arrived here for this call, you know, or and to listen to you complain about, you know, it took you eight hours to get here, or I filed my complaint yesterday, how come it takes so long? And I see you guys in parking lots doing nothing, you know, sort of stuff. And all of that kind of weighs on you a little bit. You can't really react, but yeah, you know, you start to become bitter and angry. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:21

And you underneath the uniform, underneath the goals, underneath the cases. There's a nervous system absorbing all

The Slow Build Of PTSD

SPEAKER_00 10:30

of it. When you look back now, what do you see as the real quiet patterns that build up over the years? The things that were not a single moment, but a slow accumulation.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

It was a slow accumulation, and when I do look back on it, it was um very slow. Uh it happens so almost so slowly you don't notice it. So, you know, it started manifesting itself with just stress, lack of sleep. So I would be constantly thinking about work, and I would not be able to wind down. You could feel your heart racing. So these are kind of the physical signs. You start having nightmares and dreams about work. Um, you can't turn it off. So, you know, just driving down the street with your family in the car, you're always scanning your environment. When you go to a restaurant, you're scanning the crowd, and you know, you're looking for potential troublemakers, wondering what you're going to do in this situation. And these intrusive thoughts start coming in. Um, you know, when your mind starts playing tricks on you, essentially, when you think you see someone all of a sudden, and it's not that person. So your body's always constantly reacting to its environment. And I can't stress enough about the dreams. Like, you know, you could have a very horrific call and you're dreaming about it and thinking about it. So you're not really sleeping either. So your body never really rests. And the the the accumulation of of that alone um has a devastating effect on my physical health. But it it happened so slowly that I was just didn't realize it. You almost look like a, you know, like a slow leak in a tire. You don't you don't notice it until it's flat and it's too late. Um it was kind of the same thing with me. And and and uh yeah, those those slow started accumulations after that started, then my you know, other physiological things would start to happen. So like my hands would shake if I was going to a call. I couldn't control my nervousness. I I wasn't fearful, but I was angry. I I would be um, you know, just in my even my personal life, I would always be in a rush, you know, to get somewhere. And if I couldn't make it in time, I was devastated and I was angry, you know. I I would always kind of, you know, if I was driving home from work, for instance, and I had to get my kids, and and and people are just driving like normal, you know, like normal people, but I would be so angry because I had to get through traffic to get to where I needed to be, and I had a set time limit to get there. So I would always start to get sort of jealous, and I uh and I'd call the jealous of the normals that that could just be blissfully unaware and just you know take their time and go somewhere and not have to be constantly under the gun like I like I was. And and I often wondered what it would be like. So these are all changes that were happening to me at the time, and like in reflection, I know that this was the onset of my PTSD for sure. But um, yeah, it and and after that, it just grew more into anger. So, you know, I become more cynical. Um, you know, you start to recognize patterns in people, you start to not really care anymore, you know, you you you kind of go numb because you've as an empath, you you absorb everything. So your your body starts to shut down essentially because it it your body's telling you like and your brain's saying, I can't take anymore. Like your brain fog can't think clearly, um, you know, all of these things. And and and I didn't understand it until I finally broke. That's when I understood something was totally wrong, and that's when I went and got help. Because, you know, you you just do stupid stuff. You're thrill sticking, you're driving like an idiot. You're, you know, and for some people that I talk to, sex, drugs, alcohol, all of that stuff to just feel something, because you're just basically dead inside. So it's it it it it really comes on over years, I would say. Um, but it starts so insidiously and and and the culture inside is that it's part of the job. So that's what you keep telling yourself, right? Like, you know, this is just part of the job, you know, like not everybody witnesses what we witness. So this is just part of the job. And that's the culture inside of it as well. It's like, ah, that's just the part of the job. You suck it up and you move on, right? And and and you don't want to report that you're feeling weird because what's that gonna do to your career as well? So um, you know, a lot of guys are are out there suffering in silence uh because they don't realize what's happening to them, which is kind of the purpose of do why what I'm doing, you know, take it from me.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

You know, so much of what we call burnout or breakdown is not sudden. It is the body finally putting down something it has been quietly holding for a very, very long time.

unknown 15:24

Yeah.

People Pleasing And Numbing Out

SPEAKER_01 15:25

And and you know, that's why it was important before when I kind of alluded to I was the friend that all my friends came to. So before policing, like I I I grew up that way. So I was an only child. I, you know, if my parents fought, I would be the peacemaker. I'd have to settle all these disputes. And, you know, if if my cousins or my friends who had brothers were fighting, I I couldn't stand it. I, you know, I the one thing I've come to realize is I don't like conflict, ironically. I hate it. So I need to solve it before I can be happy. And that's kind of how I grew up, and that was my mentality growing up. So I couldn't really be happy until everyone else was. So going into policing, you know, was the natural step. You want to help everybody. But at the same time, when you have that kind of people-pleasing sort of personality, which which is necessary, but at the same time, it's also very uh it's very much a curse because it you're trying to live up to an impossible standard. And, you know, when you start seeing that all this work you're putting in really doesn't really do anything, or you're just running around putting bandages on people and you you're not really solving people's problems like what you had signed up for, and you're getting yelled at the end of the the whole time and being called things you're not and all this other stuff. Um you just start to lose focus and you just and and and you know, it turns into bitterness and anger. You know, there's it that's really how it manifests itself, honestly. It's not you're not blowing up at people, you just don't care anymore. You're numb. Like you just walk around like a zombie, you know, your eyes have the thousand-yard gaze. You know, people often talk about that with PTSD where guys just zone out and you're just looking off into the distance at nothing, and you're like, You okay, bud? You know, that's what happens because you're just living your thoughts. You're living you, you know, you're living your past experience. So um, yeah, it's it it's it's kind of you know, it's it's it's hard because to in order to do the job properly, you kind of need that personality, but that personality will ultimately be your downfall in your career because it it's just an impossible standard to live up to.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

Yeah.

Book And How To Reach Andrew

SPEAKER_00 17:36

Andrew, for people who want to connect with you or want to learn more about your work, where can they do that?

SPEAKER_01 17:42

Uh they can uh look up my Instagram page. It's uh Beaten Black and Blue Book. Uh you'll see a smiley picture of me uh in front of a sunset. Uh that's uh my main social media page. Um I'm also have a web page that you can connect to on my Instagram page, uh, which leads you to the book. The book is available on Amazon um on all platforms around the world. So whatever country you're in, just log on to Amazon, uh, type in beaten black and blue or my name, Andrew McLean, and it'll come up. Um and yeah, I mean that's that's basically how you can get connected to me. And if you want to reach out, the best way is through Instagram Messenger. Um, I do check that regularly. I have a lot of people that that reach out and I try to get back to everybody as well. Um, you know, like it it the start of this journey was more of a like self-healing thing, I I thought. But, you know, the amount of people that have clung onto this movement and have reached out to me uh really shows the need for this to be highlighted. And, you know, again, I thank you for the forum to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

You're most welcome. And to everyone listening, all these links are in the show notes, so you can just go and check those out. Andrew, any last message that you want to leave us with?

Suicide, Hope, And Closing

SPEAKER_01 18:54

Yeah, I would say that, you know, the the the one part of my book that was very hard to write was about my suicide attempt while I was on the job. And if there's one thing that I can impart on people right now is that the world is a much better place with you in it than with you out of it. It does get better, but it's work. But let's take this journey together, you know, let's rock this and and and you know, realize your true potential of what you can be. Sometimes you gotta start over again, start over again. Realize, discover yourself, find out what makes you happy, and screw the rest of them, honestly. Concentrate on yourself. You don't have to feel guilty by concentrating on yourself.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

Andrew, thank you for the courage and clarity you brought into this conversation.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Thank you so much. I appreciate you having me, man. Like that this is a great conversation.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

And everyone is thinking that was Andrew McLean reminding us that the strongest people in our lives are often the ones quietly caring the most, and that asking for help is not the end of strength, it is the beginning of feeling. If anything in this conversation reached a part of you that you usually try to keep quiet, please don't carry it alone tonight. Reach out to a friend, a family member, to a trained listener at a local helpline. You matter and your story is not finished. This has been healthy my and healthy life. Take care of your mind, take care of your heart, and please take care of each other. I'll see you in the next one.