The Hidden Cost Of Success

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Here is something that nobody wants you about success. You can build everything you worked toward. The business, the career, the reputation, and then this is like a quiet discovery that you know you may have, that none of it has made you free. I mean, most of us we know, you know, we we want to go into entrepreneurship or we want to start our own company or our startup because of course, you know, we do not want to, we want to be the boss of our own. We want that freedom. In fact, the more successful you become, the more indispensable you become, and the more trapped. That's how the irony is. So that's what we talk about in today's episode about why it happens and what it actually costs the person inside the achievement.

Meet Peter And The Pattern

SPEAKER_00 1:06

So, you are listening to Healthy Mind, Healthy Life, dear listeners. I am Sana, and today I'm sitting with someone who has spent over 20 years and more than 60,000 hours inside businesses across five continents. And in all of that time, he kept seeing the same pattern. The more the business grew, the less free the founder became. And he gave that pattern a name. We'll explode that in the conversation. Uh, but yes, let me also share with you listeners, he's the best-selling author of Your Business Suc. And he's here today with us to talk, not to talk business strategy, but to talk about what this pattern does to the human being living inside it. So let's welcome our guest, Peter Bulka. So, Peter, welcome to Heldy Mine, Hilda Life. It's an honor.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

And thank you so much for having me today. It's so great to be here.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Super, super. Um, Peter, we'll uh directly start with the human cost and the phrase that you used. Um, we'll get to the story and the reason why you gave that name, although I do make uh a lot of sense by looking at the phrase. But for our listeners of Healthy Man Hilly Life, if we if we can share, like give a background, how, what exactly you observed, what you experienced working across like multiculture, multicultures, multiple countries, continents. What were the common things that you observed?

SPEAKER_01 2:37

Let's go back to the very beginning.

Day One Opens The Trap

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Let's go back to the very beginning when people start a business. And people start a business for a couple of reasons. They think that their boss is an imbecile, they lose their job. I mean, very few people will actually start a business because they have the courage to start a business. But what nobody ever tells anybody when they start a business that the day one you start your business is day one you open the trap. Now you think about it, and let's let's use UK as an example. In the UK, there's approximately 5.4 million privately owned small to medium-sized businesses, of which around 4.2 million are solopreneurs. So you think about it, for yeah, it's big, it's a big portion. 4.2 million of them do not employ anybody, which means the trap is already set because you have to do the marketing, you have to do the delivery, you have to do the finances, you're already pedaling on the hamster ball trap, but you don't realize it. And when you first start a business, you convince yourself it's okay, I am going to do what I need to do to get this business off the ground and make it a success. So you condition yourself at the very beginning of the journey on day one. I'm gonna work really hard, I'm gonna make every single decision in the business, and as I start to hire people in the business, I will still be unconsciously the chief decision maker, and I will train the entire organization to be dependent on me, the founder. People don't do it consciously, you see. It's not deliberate, you know what? I'm gonna start a business and I'm gonna build myself a prison. They don't do it on purpose, they do it because when they first start a business, they need to get an income, they need to pay bills, they need to look after the family. And one of the biggest traps people make, as people become more successful, they get more money and they improve their lifestyle. And the bigger the lifestyle, the bigger the trap. Because once you're used to having

Lifestyle Growth Tightens The Cage

SPEAKER_01 5:13

all those outgoings, you can imagine this. And this was the thing that really hit me hard. Most of the founders that I got to work with interview and see, rarely did they have a holiday. And I saw so many businesses disappear overnight when a founder, typically in the age of 45 plus, had some kind of major medical intervention that meant that they could not operate in their business for a period of time. Let's say maybe a month. So the first question I would really ask everybody if you were taken ill for whatever reason, you couldn't communicate, operate, or work within your business for 30 days, what would happen to that business? And a lot of people are conscious of the fact that as soon as they stop running, the income stops. As soon as you stop replying to inquiries, somebody else will get the business. You think about it, when you think about it from a psychological point of view, it's not just a physical hamster wall trap that's a problem. It's a psychological prison that people have created for themselves.

SPEAKER_00 6:40

Exactly. And uh Peter, I want to, you know, because you mentioned about psychology, I'm going to get into that. But before this, it is unconsciously,

The 30 Day Business Test

SPEAKER_00 6:57

like the creation happens unconsciously. However, let's say, let's say for a person who is already, for the founder who is already aware about it, you know, like deep down that feeling, that realization is there. But then once again, your rational mind will kind of think, I cannot stop right now. I cannot pause right now. It is impossible for me right now. So let me just do this for probably the next six months. Okay, let me also maybe hire one or two people. But for the next six months, let me be on this wheel deliberately, because I cannot let this go. This is my baby. And this Aunt Clishay, for the listeners, because I've said it so many times. I've discussed this with many guests on Helly Man, Helly Life on Bis Blend as well, another one of our business podcasts. Um, but yes, it is your baby. And how what what do you think about you know this uh dilemma or the stalling, okay, for another three months, for another six months, maybe for a year. Then I'll see, or I'll go out for investment.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

Do you know what the problem is?

The Bubble That Blocks Change

SPEAKER_01 8:11

Is a lot of these people operate within their own bubble, so they don't have any external people challenging their thinking. And to be honest, they believe their own bullshit. Sometimes I would suggest that you take your baby and put it out for adoption because it'd be safer for the baby to be looked after by somebody else. But for the most part, we go to school, we learn. We may go to university and have a degree that's intellectually biased but not practical. And the harsh reality is most people that go into business, they go into business with an idea, but they're not equipped to run a business. They've never studied business, they've never studied the elements that constitute business. Therefore, when you're talking about I'll give it three months and I'll give it six months and then end up there in two or three years, the reality is they don't know how to break the cycle because they don't have the knowledge, the content, or the context to make a different set of decisions. So they just continue on the same pathway, hoping that time alone will be sufficient enough that something miraculously is going to change. It's like I'm gonna wake up one day and my life's gonna be different. It's like seriously, wake up. It's like being in. I don't know if you've ever seen the film The Matrix. Yeah, I have business owners don't know which pill to swallow. That's the problem.

SPEAKER_00 9:57

And this knowledge that you're talking about is not the textbook or the degree knowledge, this it's the practical world knowledge.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

Don't get me wrong. I think when you read, there's so many great business books out there, so many, that can teach you elements of the business so you can make better decisions. There's just a lot of people just don't get into the habit of education. They think that once they've done their formal education, my education is done. Whereas, I would say that's when your education begins. As soon as you become a business owner, you've got to learn how to become that business owner. You've got to learn the tactical side of business, but you also got to learn all about people. That's something that they never ever teach you at school, college, university. They never teach you all about people. And in business, it's all about people. And our ability to develop resilience along the way. Everyone goes to the everyone likes to talk about I'm going to the gym, I'm exercising my body. But what do you do for the most important muscle in your body, the brain? What do you do to help that? What do you do to make that stronger? Very little.

The Psychology Of Indispensability

SPEAKER_00 11:16

That absolutely makes sense, Peter. I think that has it's you have put it brilliantly. Put it brilliantly. And now I want to double down on the psychology uh part here, because um you mentioned about it, and you also say that founders fail not because they are not clever enough, but because they become indispensable. So what is the psychological pattern beneath this? Is it is it the the education or the conditioning or the pressure to be a success, to look as a successful entrepreneur, to follow a trend? What exactly is this?

SPEAKER_01 11:55

All of the above. It's not one isolated industry, so I it's not one isolated moment or thing, it's a combination of all those factors stitched together. I mean, to become a business owner, you have to have something about you, and so many entrepreneurs, unfortunately, have a massive ego, and that ego is born out of the fact they start the business, and when you start the business, you have to be the best at what you do. To get any credibility, you have to be the best, but then they hire badly because no one's ever taught them to hire, so they hire people that won't naturally challenge their thinking, which makes them indispensable, it makes them the smartest person in the company, which it which forces them to be stuck, and they never get out of that cycle. And I look at the beginning, it's a bit like an endorphin hit, it's a bit like getting likes on Facebook or Instagram. Validation, it's a vanity metric because it makes you feel good about yourself until it wears you down, and as it wears it down, and as a business owner, very often business owners are isolated, yeah, they make the decisions by themselves, they don't want to take their problems home, they don't often have somebody on the outside to talk to. So they don't know what to do next, and they also think that the behavior that they are exhibiting is normal behavior, and if there's a good book for these people that are stuck to read, it's Marshall Goldsmith's book, What Got You Here Won't Get You There. And it's so true. Listen, what got you to move from a solopreneur to then employing two or three people isn't gonna get you to a business that is employing 50 to 100.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

That's true. That's absolutely right. I think this is such a deeply human thing, Peter, because it is it is why so many founders know they need to change, but they cannot quite make themselves do it. Because I think it feels like this um dismantling, like even when you are you desperately want to, dismantling it, that being needed, feeling valued is like feeling valued or having an echo chamber. Um it can feel like dismantling yourself.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

And you know what's interesting is because they've placed value on themselves being needed all the time. Whereas actually, if we look we look at value, as a as an organization grows, the value that a founder should provide should change, as should their identity, and they need to make that shift. It's guilt. A big portion of it is guilt. Is that you hire people or people need to be seen as being indispensable, being the first person in, being the last person out, because it's a badge of honor, and they also do not want their employees to think that they don't work hard. It's an identity problem as well, because they've not made that shift. They are concerned more about being judged than driving the business forward.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

And Peter, I want to uh genuinely want to push back on something here because you know there's there's a uh saying that um you know, never I I don't remember the exact words, but never um, you know, when you look back, you really, really get

When Obsession Becomes Excellence

SPEAKER_00 16:10

to know your heroes, you get a completely different picture about them. So, you know, through some of the most admired founders in the history that we have seen, we are seeing right now, we have seen movies or we have read books, autobiographies, biographies. Um, you know, they were obsessively involved in everything. Um, like, you know, either micromanaging or, you know, been there in every detail. So is it possible, Peter, that the hamster wheel, it is not a trap for everyone? Like that for some people it is, like being indispensable is actually the source of excellence.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

Think of it differently. Think of the hamster wheel as a theme park. Okay, and within the theme park, you have micro hamster wheels, which are the rides. You have the marketing hamster wheel, you have the sales hamster wheel, the operations hamster wheel, you have all of those. Look, as a founder, and I'll use Steve Jobs as an example. He was obsessive over every detail. He didn't go and make the damn phone, he didn't design the damn phone, he challenged his key people to have the attention to detail and excellence that he valued. There was the difference. His job, when he first started the company and everything, yes, it was about how great he was. Yeah. In his second term at Apple, because he really did suck the first time round.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

Because he was an inexperienced. By the time he got to his second tenure in Apple, it was all about how great he could make his people, and his obsessive nature was about making his team great, and that's where the challenging came in, that's where the calibration around standards came in. He wasn't doing the stupid stuff, he wasn't doing other people's work for them. He was doing what was needed to take the business from being a multi-million dollar corporation to multi-billion dollar corporation. There was a switch.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

And I think it's a very honest and necessary takeaway. And I'm glad you used uh this example, Peter, because you're not saying that involvement is the problem, but you are saying that, um, correct me if I'm wrong, unconscious, um, compulsive, like identity-driven involvement. And yeah, I think there is a version of deep engagement, you know, that's a genuine creative choice, you know. Sometimes it's a creative choice, but then there's also this insecurity or fleeing of insecurity or FOMO, or maybe like this egotistical or you know, letting go of that control, which is like wearing the costume of dedication and hustling.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

Yeah, and suppressing your team, making them feel undervalued, underappreciated, and many, many things.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

Yeah, yeah.

Delegation Starts With Better Hiring

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Okay, Alf, let's talk about the solution, the way forward here, Peter. Um, because specifically when you bring this into the context of high achievers, um, they have they have tried. It's not that you know they have never tried it, but probably there also that pattern of you know perfection or high achievement kind of uh uh made this uh created a blocker in there. They have taken breaks, or maybe they have tried to delegate, maybe they did a bad hiring, so they got an idea, okay, this is not something for me. So maybe they tried to step back and then once again moving back to the old patterns. So, what has to shift here first before any of the practical um uh or tangible changes they can actually hold?

SPEAKER_01 20:44

They need to acquire the skills needed to make better decisions. And I always say you cannot delegate to an idiot, they all screw things up for you very quickly. You've got to you've got to build the right team at the right time, which is easier said than done. Don't get me wrong, but it's not a skill you learn at university or college. You have to learn how to become the good recruiter, you need to learn how to find the right talent, you need to learn how you're gonna develop the talent within your organization so that when you do get the opportunity to delegate, you do not end up stepping back on somebody else's hamster wheel. Because there's this thing that I talk about, it's called compensation management, and that is very prevalent in businesses where somebody is screwing up, so what happens is they'll say, Well, I'll take that bit off of you, and basically they're paying people to then do a portion of their job instead of dealing with the true problem, the true issue at hand, is okay, why can't that person do the job? That they need to do in the first place.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

And maybe for a few it may sound harsh, but I I think theater reality is harsh. It it can be harsh. And um it cannot be always um uh fluff or nice to listen to or hear to. It is what it is. If it's a bad hire, it yeah, go ahead, Peter.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

It's a bad hire, it's a bad hire. I mean you look you look at the you look at the economy, yeah. You look at the global economy, it only understands the language of competence. It knows no other language. Therefore, if you do not understand the rules of commerce and how to operate in the marketplace, the economy will have absolutely what's the word I'm looking for. It will show you no mercy, it will have no empathy for you, it will punish you for not doing the right things, and therefore there's no way you can fluff it up because a bad hire is a bad hire, and it can cost you so much money.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

And this is why we have to learn to get it right. There is no shaking away, and I know that there are so many people that try to make it sound a lot softer. Let us be kind to people, let us not tell them the truth as it is.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

I don't I don't agree with that.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

No, and that's the problem. You have to, whether you like the truth or not, the truth is a truth. Now, what you do about the truth is a totally different thing.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

That's a totally different thing. And there is a way to communicate that. It doesn't have to be, you know, uh in a very disrespect or or undignified uh way, but at least if A plus B is uh one plus one is equal to two, it has to be communicated one plus one is equal to two. It cannot be communicated in any other way.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

No, absolutely not. And I think you've got to communicate with humility. If you communicate from the right place, then it's fine. Yeah, it's when you communicate from the wrong place, it's unacceptable.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

Totally, totally okay.

Buying Freedom With Skills And Systems

SPEAKER_00 24:27

Great. So, Peter, before we uh wrap this up, honestly, this was such such a powerful and uh very pragmatic uh conversation on this topic. And of course, you know, I would love to ask you like after 20 years and um 60,000 hours of watching this pattern play out, what do you most want high achievers to understand about the relationship between success and freedom?

SPEAKER_01 24:58

Freedom can only be created. So, look, when you look at freedom, you can only buy freedom. Because you think about any given business, jobs need to be done. Jobs are always going to need to be done, and you've got two options. You either do the job or you employ great people to do the job, and you build the structure, you build the systems, you build the processes, and you buy your freedom. If you don't know how to buy your freedom right now, because we all make mistakes as we grow a business, that is natural, that will never stop. You have to learn the skills, you have to look at yourself, look in that mirror. What am I missing? What do I need to learn to make the decisions that will get me the freedom I desire, if you desire it? So, the one thing I will say that every founder needs to be a lifelong learner because the rules never change, no, never stay the same. I mean, you look since COVID, since 2000, the world's a crazy place. It's absolutely madness out there. I mean, we've got two of the biggest wars that we've experienced in 30 years. I mean, and that affects the whole global economy, which means how we operate, our resilience mentally, physically needs to be on par. And we need to build these skills. These may be skills we didn't need 30 years ago, but we need them today. So lifelong learning, it's not an option. Even if you're a high achiever, you may be a high achiever once bought, but the rules of the sport can change. Which means your tactics and everything, what you did last year, may not be working this year.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

100%. That's that's such a valuable life lesson, honestly, Peter. Very valuable. Thank you

Book Deal And How To Connect

SPEAKER_00 26:48

so much. And um, of course, uh, for if our listeners they would like to carry forward this conversation with you, connect with you, and your book as well, your business sucks, how they can reach out to you.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

Okay, so my business sucks actually is available in India on Amazon. So just type in your business sucks into Amazon, you'll be able to get it. And actually, we've got it for we've got it for a really sort of good price as well. So in America, it's for like 99 cents.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

99 cents?

SPEAKER_01 27:20

Yeah, the ebook, the Kindle version. I priced it out there because I just want as many people as possible to have access to it. It's not going to stay at that price forever.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

But right now it's at that price. So just type in your business sucks. And if you just type my name into Google, you will find my social channels really easily. You'll find my website. I'm so easily found on Google. It's better than giving you 30 or 40 different links.

SPEAKER_00 27:49

Absolutely. And this is, I'm just going to mention that in the show notes. You know, just Google Peter Book and of course, uh, check out your business sucks. And yeah, go and check out the Kindle version, 99 cents. It is not going to stay for that price uh for a very long time. So, yeah, all the links, all the details will be there in the show notes in the description section. If you're watching this on YouTube or if you're listening to this on Spotify or Apple or any podcast platform, just refer to the display section. And Peter, thank you so much. This was such a necessary, crucial, and a very, very honest and raw conversation.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

Thank you so much for having me today.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

And thank you to all the listeners for tuning into Healthy Mind Healthy Life.

Subscribe Rate Review And Goodbye

SPEAKER_00 28:35

Um, before you go, if this conversation meant something to you, which I'm very sure it did, do follow Healthy Mind Healthy Life on Spotify, Apple, subscribe to us on YouTube channel or any of the podcast platforms that you are tuning into right now. And maybe if you have two more minutes, maybe you can leave us a rating or a review because that generally helps more people find these conversations. So thank you for being here. I am Sana. I'll be back soon.